HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

Skeeter said:
1) having a problem with suspension doesnt mean you know it is going to fall apart.
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I said exactly that. :\ I was correcting the post I quoted - they did know they had a failure.

Skeeter said:
2) the wheel was not secure, you can see it vibrating, and the wheel cover didnt unscrew the nut, Ted Kravitz was talking rubbish, the wheel covered are not conencted to the nut, and the nuts are designed to be self tightening aswell. They have a safety catch thing in them that when the nut is tightened the mechanic clicks out of the centre of the nut (watch next time, you can see all the mechanics doing it). This didnt click out, meaning the wheel was not on securely.
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The wheel was only vibrating approaching turn 2.

I'm fully aware that the wheels have safety catches on them, but thanks for that condescending remark - the nut was done up, it was the wheel cover which wasn't... so coincidence? ;)

The safety catch doesn't have to be activated to prevent the wheel falling off by the way. It's an additional measure just in case the nut comes undone, and it worked for half a lap before it succumbed to the forces acting upon it.


What Renault did was an honest mistake, unlike what Vettel and RBR did in Melbourne without punishment. ;)
 
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I'm sure I've seen a few cars in history with the wheels not secured properly.
Never remember one stopping on the track and ending their race though, if you can make it back to the pits. Make it back to the pits.
 
Renault Appeal against ban.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5454961,00.html

Renault have formally lodged an appeal against the stewards' decision to suspend them from the European Grand Prix.

The stewards on Sunday banned the French-based squad from next month's race in Valencia after Fernando Alonso's front wheel came off shortly after his pit stop during the Hungarian Grand Prix.

The Spaniard was forced to retire shortly after the team were later slapped with a ban from the European GP on August 23.

A statement from the FIA stewards read that Renault had "knowingly released car no. 7 from the pitstop position without one of the retaining devices for the wheel-nuts being securely in position, this being an indication that the wheel itself may not have been properly secured".

Renault, though, have confirmed that they have appealed against the decision.

The team lodged the necessary paperwork signed by team manager Steve Nielsen (team boss Flavio Briatore had already left the Hungagoring) and also paid the 6000 Euros fee for the appeal.

The hearing is expected to take place during the summer break.
 
Over Clocker said:
You're talking absolute rubbish!

What Renault did was dangerous, they KNEW the wheel was not secured but still released the car and did NOT tell Alonso the wheel was not secure.
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Did the lollypop man know though? I'm sure when he released the car he didn't know it wasn't right on. And I can also bet that Alonso DID know something was wrong even before he got to the first corner, so easliy before the team could radio him.
This is just an over reaction due to the 2 recent accidents over the last week, had they both not happened we wouldn't be discussing this now.

Edit.. ok so from now on if a driver gets a puncture does he just pull off the track and retire? As if he drives back to the pits, the tyre could come off the rim and injure someone! It's the same thing, the team would let the driver continue knowing that situation might happen. Where do you draw the line?
 
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realscot said:
Not investigating red bull for releasing a car into the path of another, then this farce?
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You forget, people on here will only cry about it when Ferrari do it then say OMG FERRARI INTERNATIONAL ASSISTANCE. When anyone else is involved they don't give a toss, they know who they are as well.

Excellent drive from Hamilton, McLaren seem to have really got their act together there. Great to see Kimi scoring a podium too, that'll ease Ferrari's pain a little. Renault could do with shedding Piquet, he's utterly terrible.

Oh dear, Hamilton was 1,000/1 for the WDC before the race... now he's 25/1. Overturning a 50 point deficit with 7 races to go, which means Webber, Button, Barrichello and Vettel all have to score less than 30 points each in the last 7 races with Hamilton winning them ALL?

I don't bloody think so.
 
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Duke said:
Although Piquet is struggling & I don't really like/rate him at the moment, you got to feel for him a bit when the team boss is packed up and looks to be leaving the circuit when your still racing.
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I'll feel sorry for him the moment he stops acting like an arrogrant, spolied brat with a far higher opinion of his own talent than is warranted. So far he's blamed just about everything and everyone else for his lack of performance this year except the fact that he just isn't doing a good enough job. It's time he shut the **** up and drove faster.
 
JRS said:
I'll feel sorry for him the moment he stops acting like an arrogrant, spolied brat with a far higher opinion of his own talent than is warranted. So far he's blamed just about everything and everyone else for his lack of performance this year except the fact that he just isn't doing a good enough job. It's time he shut the **** up and drove faster.
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Hi Flavio. How's it going at QPR? And Elisabetta treating you fine? :p
 
JRS said:
I'll feel sorry for him the moment he stops acting like an arrogrant, spolied brat with a far higher opinion of his own talent than is warranted. So far he's blamed just about everything and everyone else for his lack of performance this year except the fact that he just isn't doing a good enough job. It's time he shut the **** up and drove faster.
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Yes, he just needs to put a solid drive in without going off the bloody race track then the team wouldn't be on his back all the time. Needs to start with abit of consistency then Flav wouldn't be leaving the track early, throwing in the towl.

He is young, and some might say, its harsh why he has been given a deadline and such about his drive next year. Not sure if it really states in his contract that he has to score half the points of Alonso but looking at the table, Alonso is only on 13!

From what Ive seen of him, F1 is better off without him, simple as!
 
But Red Bull have been warned...

After the race at the Hungaroring on Sunday, race steward reprimanded Mark Webber’s Red Bull Racing team for unsafely releasing the driver after a pit stop. [1]

During the race Mark Webber was released into the pit lane after his pit stop in the on-coming path of Ferrari’s Kimi Räikkönen. The two would almost come to a collision.

Because of this incident a warning was issued to the Austrian energy drink team. It was the second race in succession the Red Bull Racing team has been involved in similar incidents. At the German Grand Prix two weeks ago, the team was issued a penalty and a warning.

In a separate incident at the start of the race, Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen collided with both Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel. The stewards choose not to issue any penalty for the Scuderia, and determined the collision to be considered as a normal racing incident.
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Over Clocker said:
The device not sitting on the wheel properly is a top indicator what the wheel nut is not on properly.
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Not really; if you watch them putting on the wheel the gun man usually has to click it down in to position. This is after the gun has come off, so the nut is on properly, just the aero device is not fixed (will spin).
 
MarcLister said:
Hi Flavio. How's it going at QPR? And Elisabetta treating you fine? :p
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My god, I would leave the track early if I was heading home to see her :eek:

ElisabettaGregoraci1.jpg


:D
 
realscot said:
Edit.. ok so from now on if a driver gets a puncture does he just pull off the track and retire? As if he drives back to the pits, the tyre could come off the rim and injure someone! It's the same thing, the team would let the driver continue knowing that situation might happen. Where do you draw the line?
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A punctured tyre is a very different prospect, they are mishaped, flat, and have no pressure, they tend to not bounce along down the track as easily and would therefore do a lot less damage with less speed, but the thing is, a puncture happens, its still actually attached, the chances of it coming off and bouncing around are fairly slim.

Also the lollipop man did make a massive mistake, the front right guy did NOT put his hand up, he was still working when the car was released. As he works for the team the team get punished rather than the driver alone, which seems relatively fair. It feels harsh to ban them from the race to me, though I too think they should get punishment and Alonso should have pulled in as soon as the problem was obvious.

Its also worth pointing out in the case of Webber being released into Kimi, the Lollipop man rightly or wrongly was rather distracted by the mistake in the pit lane, he'd already semi released then stopped him was just out of position and watching for the problem to be fixed rather than than watching for traffic. It is wrong, but something unexpected happens your attention is drawn to it, I don't think Kimi was in the guys thinking, I don't think he did it to put Kimi off or try and get Webber out ahead of him, he simply wasn't paying enough attention, maybe worthy of punishment, maybe not, personally I'm not sure.

Kimi should have been investigated though, those kind of very sudden dramatic swerves with multiple cars to be affected by it are incredibly dangerous, frankly he should get a penalty. Hamilton could easily have taken out Webber when moving to avoid him. The thing that saved him over Webber the time before wasn't the lack of contact, it was that Webber had already made a few changes in direction already before doing his sudden swerve, Kimi's could count as his one allowed move, Webber's couldn't.
 
Goksly said:
Not really; if you watch them putting on the wheel the gun man usually has to click it down in to position. This is after the gun has come off, so the nut is on properly, just the aero device is not fixed (will spin).
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Or that he pushed it and it didn't click because the nut wasn't on properly behind it so was loose/further out than it should have been which could have prevented the cover not fitting in.

Fact is there was a major screwup and there should be someone held accountable though I don't think that banning them for a race is the proportionate response. Maybe if the FIA introduce a rule that in that specific situation you do have to stop, and Renault get a suspended ban and the next infraction this season they get that added or something, would be more appropriate.

Lets be honest, pit people do screw up, the lollipop guy didn't purposely let him go with a bad tyre, however the team didn't tell him the wheel is likely unsafe and he should pull over.
 
Good to see the stewards not getting that involved again with the whole Kimi and Webber thing.

First off, Kimi from the start didn't do much wrong. Just moved to get 'arround' car. After the Webber drive through at the German race, which were a terrible decision anyway, I thought Kimi's cards were marked. They finally saw sense.

On the pitlap 'near miss' between the two, nothing happened, it would have been harsh to give any penalty to Webber for it. A warning is fair.

Giving Renault a ban though for the next race. I think they are going a little too over the top with that one. Wasn't it the lolly pop man who twitched that sent Alonso off a tad early not giving the 'second' wheel man check the cover? Alonso knew straight away that it wasn't right so the team couldn't really tell him anything that he didn't already know. Like any driver, he drove with the hope getting back to the pits. The wheel came off, unlucky for him and its one of those freak accidents.
 
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