HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

this_is_gav · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:10

FrankJH said:
It started as an honest mistake - but once they knew what happened (as the wheel man must have known as much as Alonso himself) they should have told him to retire the car INSTANTLY imo - otherwise that wheel could have come off anywhere and hit anyone whether it was a spectator, driver steward or anything

That was a dangerous situation made a lot more dangerous by continueing at all imo (yes I know F1 is dangerous - but surely Renault where putting a lot more people needlessly at risk)

And Vettel in Melbourne?

dalin80 said:
the guy who won a pair of championships and drove stunningly after smashing his legs?

For the record his legs were fine. He smashed his head off the steering wheel though and ended up in a worse situation than it appears Massa has been in providing no further complications arise. The guy wasn't expected to live.

Malt_Vinegar · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:11

So, in regards to Ferrari replacing Massa at the next race... I think its pretty clear he will not be in the car in Spain?

Who currently holds a Superlicense, and is suitably "ferrari" to pick up the remainder of the Season.

Talk of Alonso for the next race and Shumacher aside, as I think both a non-starters. Alonso will have contractual agreement with Renault not to drive for anyone else, and Ferrari are not likely to give him an insight into the car whilst still on the books for Renault. (NDA perhaps?)
Shumacher, has he paid for his Superlicense this year, and what does he have to gain? Driving a car thats so different to what he used to drive, and currently carrying back/shoulder injuries from his last bike accident. I would'nt want to put an already injured driver into an unfamiliar car.

Gene/Badoer - Surely these two are right up there. Not sure on their current situatons, superlicense status?

Kimi's (perhaps already arranged) replacement for next year, bring him in early, and give him time to get used to a new car till his own full season?

Recently dropped drivers? Bourdais/Davidson/Couthard??

Any other suggestions?

Goksly · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:11

To be fair though, as soon as it started to spin, you could see the feedback coming through the steering wheel. We don't know what was said on the radio; that could have been the thing that caused the suspension (i.e. "the wheel is going to come off... should i pull over" "nar thats fine. These things are build for three wheels!"). I would be surprised if they 100% new the wheel nut or the aero device was not on when he left. By the end of the 1st corner no doubt everyone new.... thats when he should have pulled over (his race was well over by that point).

The replacement driver for Massa has to be their third driver - thats the whole point. If they would want someone else to take over, they would have had them as the third driver.

this_is_gav · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:15

Malt_Vinegar said:
Gene/Badoer - Surely these two are right up there. Not sure on their current situatons, superlicense status?

You have to assume that Gene will be in the car in Valencia and Badoer in Monza. They'll probably get 3 races each, though it's anyone's guess who gets the final race.

Malt_Vinegar said:
Kimi's (perhaps already arranged) replacement for next year, bring him in early, and give him time to get used to a new car till his own full season?

If Kimi leaves only one man replaces him, and you've already asked not to mention him.

Mikey · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:19

Jokester said:
There in the papers, basically he's sitting upright in he car, with his visor smashed off and what looks like a hole above his left eye brow in the helmet. Looks bloodied as well plus his left eye is shut and his right wide open

Didn't see them over the weekend.

Reading the Autosport article I reckon he's done racing. Damage to the left eye

I rate Mass and certainly a driver that I wanted to be champion

Dup · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:20

Entertaining the theroy that Michael Smug Git Schumacher would make a return is silly. We know he can drive and although it's questionable he will be able to acustom himself to the car, it could be an insult to Massa if he does as he's not employed as a driver. Its clear they will Gene or Badour.

I hope Massa is race fit soem time in the future. He gave us some exciting championship battles last year and we can only hope he can return and produce those results again.

Duke · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:20

Alonso to Ferrari early to settle in!

Malt_Vinegar · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:24

How much of a done deal is Alonso to Ferrari? I seriously doubt Alonso would be allowed to race in another car whilst under Renault contract.

That said... Flavio is a nutter, so i would never rule it out 100% but who knows!

PinkFloyd · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:24

Dup said:
Entertaining the theroy that Michael Smug Git Schumacher would make a return is silly. We know he can drive and although it's questionable he will be able to acustom himself to the car, it could be an insult to Massa if he does as he's not employed as a driver. Its clear they will Gene or Badour.

I hope Massa is race fit soem time in the future. He gave us some exciting championship battles last year and we can only hope he can return and produce those results again.

I'm sure Schumacher would have no issue doing well in the current cars. If Alguersari can get into the car at the start of the weekend and keep pace in the race then MS would have no issue whatsoever.
As to it being an insult to Massa :confused:

I can't see how anyone being brought in could be an insult to Massa, its not like he was dropped like Bourdais. He is out because of injury.

Malt_Vinegar · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:27

The AS report claims that, by incurring the penalty, Renault - which intends to appeal the verdict - broke a "basic commitment" enshrined in Alonso's contract; that the French carmaker must offer the two-time world champion a cockpit at every Grand Prix in 2009.

Interesting!!

Mikey · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:29

Just seen the photo on the Daily Mail website (have to wash my hands now...) and he looks terrible. That eye looks done and I'll unfortunately put money on Felipe's F1 career is done. Very sad as I like Felipe as a racer and would probably put him as one of the nicest and best on the grid. He's got manners unlike Kimi

I'd love to see Schumacher back and for him to put Kimi in his place at the back! Schumacher would be best placed for car development work

for the 2010 car

Dup · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:30

PinkFloyd said:
I'm sure Schumacher would have no issue doing well in the current cars. If Alguersari can get into the car at the start of the weekend and keep pace in the race then MS would have no issue whatsoever.
As to it being an insult to Massa I can't see how anyone being brought in could be an insult to Massa, its not like he was dropped like Bourdais. He is out because of injury.

Massa has been a good driver. MS has been a great driver. If MS comes in a starts getting better results than Massa has been, Massa then faces even more doubt of returning after injury. It would not bode well for the team spirit who obviously hold him in high regard and it could ruin his career more than a bang to head could.

It would be interesting to see MS return, but only if Massa was medically rules out forever. Ideally, giving the opertunity to an uprising driver is the best route though, even if that means they take a current driver and create space elsewhere on the grid.

kaiowas · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:31

Renault will get their punishment reduced on appeal and Alonso will be racing for them at Valencia. Schumacher won't come back to drive a rubbish car and risk his reputation and it'll be either Badoer or Gene racking up development miles for the rest of the season toward next year.

Of course this may all change once Alonso to Ferrari for 2010 is announced at Monza

orderoftheflame · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:31

stockhausen said:
According to the BBC

Doctors say Felipe Massa suffered eye damage in crash during Hungarian qualifying.

Click to expand...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77379

Dutch Guy · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:36

OMG, I just watched the pic on Dailymail, you can just see the fear in his right eye when his left eye is shut, very worrying.

flat-6 · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:38

Well guess I was wrong, definitely doesn't look good for his career now. Sad.

PinkFloyd · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:38

Dup said:
Massa has been a good driver. MS has been a great driver. If MS comes in a starts getting better results than Massa has been, Massa then faces even more doubt of returning after injury. It would not bode well for the team spirit who obviously hold him in high regard and it could ruin his career more than a bang to head could.

Sorry but you're just being silly here. Schumacher retired from F1 because he didn't want to race, its not like he would carry on if Massa came back. You sound like your suggesting that Ferrari should intentionally get a poor driver just because a different driver might get better results than Massa.
As you have no doubt noticed the Ferrari has become a good car now and decent results are inevitable now, whether Massa is at the wheel or not.

Malt_Vinegar · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:43

'It would be wrong to say yes or no at this stage,' Domenicali told the Tagesspiegel newspaper Monday when asked about the chance of Schumacher returning to the track for the European Grand Prix in Valencia on August 23.

'We will think about it this week.'

Read more: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/s...chumacher_as_Massa_replacement_#ixzz0MTGdYWQ8

MarcLister · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:47

Goksly said:
The replacement driver for Massa has to be their third driver - thats the whole point. If they would want someone else to take over, they would have had them as the third driver.

Ferrari didn't use their third driver in 1999 to cover for Schumacher. They got Mika Salo in.

Malt_Vinegar said:
Interesting!!

If that is true then Alonso could drive for Ferrari for rest of season then and not just Valencia.

I think Alonso's two options for 2010 are to stay at Renault or move to Ferrari. I don't think staying at Renault has good odds.

Malt_Vinegar · 27 Jul 2009 at 15:52

According to Schumacher's manager, Willi Weber, who was present at the Hungaroring, Michael Schumacher is not an option for Ferrari to replace Massa.

"This is only speculation," Weber commented. "I heard these rumours on Saturday evening but I don't see it happening; Ferrari already has two very good spare drivers who will both be keen to race when the opportunity is there."

The couple of drivers in question are Italian Luca Badoer and Spain's Marc Gené.

Source - http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/07/27/schumacher-won-t-replace-massa-manager-confirms/