HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

[dannyjo22]

What is more exciting is just how Kimi would respond to having Alonso racing with him. We saw that Alonso and Hamilton are equally matched (finishing 1 point apart, in 2007), but how will Alonso compare with Kimi. I would love it if Alonso moved to Ferrari this season...I want to see Kimi under serious pressure.

The interesting thing for me is the intention was probably not to run Kimi and Alonso together. I'd bet the plan was to keep Massa as Alonsos whipping boy.

Kimi is as uninterested and motivated as I've ever seen as driver, Ferrari should be getting rid but Massa might have given them a bigger problem.

Alonso and Button at ferrari for 2010

 

[Skeeter]

The last part I agree with, they should have told him when it was obvious there was an issue - but surely in the pits the lollipop man released the driver without realising the wheel was fully fastened, by that time the driver is well out of his pit box so even if the wheel guy runs(above the noise etc) straight over to the guys on the pit wall to inform them of the problem, then by that time Alonso would be pretty much out of the pitlane already?

Yep, which is the same as any other dangerous release and would have prububly seen them get some form of slap on the writst, although the Webber/Kimi incident shows yet more inconsistency in that. But the fact remains, the team knew very early on that the wheel was not safe, yet made no attempt to prevent the car joining the track, and once it had done, made no attempt to notify the driver. Its this lack of notification that got them the ban, not the wheel comming off.

I cant recall any team not telling there driver what the problem is. In the cases when people have driven off with fuel hoses attached they have been quickly followed by team members screaming franticly down the radio at them. And when people have had things like wings come loose they are told very quickly by the team (and in Barrichellos case earlier this year, promptly ignored ), but Renault made no effort to inform the driver or prevent it going back to the track.

I also agree with clv101, the appeal will likely result in a fine or something other than a race ban. The ban was harsh.

 

[Alibaba99]

When has a similar punishment ever been made for a lose wheel nut and there has been many even in recent years.

How many wheelnuts have actually come off since the introduction of the secondary locking feature and not been caused by failure of the stub axle or failed thread or similar.

If the locking feature had been in place, the aero wouldn't have been able to unwind the nut and cause the wheel to come off. The mechanic would have known that the lock hadn't been snapped into position before the car left.

The only vaguely similar situation I can think of was Kimi last year with his dangling exhaust system, where he even had a pit stop and was released with it still loose. However as he was driving a Ferrari in the midst of whole pile of inconsistent stewards decisions we can't ascertain if another team would have received a penalty.

 

[Skeeter]

Taking a step back, just take a look at how many times people have moaned about inconsistency in this thread.....

How long untill the FIA realise!

 

[NathanE]

"Ferrari refuse to rule out a return for Michael Schumacher to stand in for Felipe Massa. Ferrari will make a decision as soon as possible." -- TheScuderia Twitter

 

[PinkFloyd]

"Ferrari refuse to rule out a return for Michael Schumacher to stand in for Felipe Massa. Ferrari will make a decision as soon as possible." -- TheScuderia Twitter

Hope so!
Either MS or Alonso would be amazing!

 

[Skeeter]

wont be Alonso. F1 contracts are so tight, especially the sponsor ones, that there is no way Alonso could be in the car unless he leaves Renault. Even though he signed with McLaren over a year before he joined them, he had to wait right up to the end of his Renault contract before he could even be photographed near the McLaren car in anything but Renault colours.

 

[clv101]

Taking a step back, just take a look at how many times people have moaned about inconsistency in this thread.....

How long untill the FIA realise!

Yeah - but then again F1 is an inconsistent sport. Rarely are two incidents identical. Sure wheels have fallen off cars before but have the circumstances every been just like this before? I doubt it.

To the lay-person (which with respect most of the posters here are) many incidents can look similar but I expect there is more variation than we realise so the accusations of inconsistency probably aren't fully warranted.

 

[clv101]

wont be Alonso. F1 contracts are so tight, especially the sponsor ones, that there is no way Alonso could be in the car unless he leaves Renault.

Of course, I don't think anyone is suggesting an Alonso move would be anything but a one-way ticket. It would consist of Ferrari buying him out of his current contract within the next couple of weeks.

 

[Skeeter]

Yeah - but then again F1 is an inconsistent sport. Rarely are two incidents identical. Sure wheels have fallen off cars before but have the circumstances every been just like this before? I doubt it.

To the lay-person (which with respect most of the posters here are) many incidents can look similar but I expect there is more variation than we realise so the accusations of inconsistency probably aren't fully warranted.

While I agree, the FIA do keep spouting that they are tyring to make the sport more fan friendly, which means tayloring it to the lay person. Even simple things things like dangerous release from the pits into the path of someone else, which are pretty much the same regardless, seem to get anything from drive through penalties or grid penalties, to a slap on the wrist and a 'dont do that again'.

 

[Django x2]

which would be pointless when MS is still under contract with Ferrari. As long as he gets fit enough in the next 4 weeks and as much simulator practice as possible, it could be a go.

Hamilton Vs Shuey would be epic

 

[smr]

which would be pointless when MS is still under contract with Ferrari. As long as he gets fit enough in the next 4 weeks and as much simulator practice as possible, it could be a go.

Hamilton Vs Shuey would be epic

that'd be like the ultimate warrior vs hulk hogan, or khan vs hatton.... or........

 

[stockhausen]

While I agree, the FIA do keep spouting that they are tyring to make the sport more fan friendly, which means tayloring it to the lay person. Even simple things things like dangerous release from the pits into the path of someone else, which are pretty much the same regardless, seem to get anything from drive through penalties or grid penalties, to a slap on the wrist and a 'dont do that again'.

I don't know how "lay" a person would have to get in order not to realise that a wheel coming off a F1 car is a BAD idea, even before Henry Surtees' death and Felipe Massa's accident

 

[sunama]

Mansell lost a wheel coming out of the pits at Estoril (I think?) in 1991 and was disqualified because they repaired the car in the pit lane.

I remember Mansell, in Monaco, 1992, came out of the pits with 1 loose wheel. He thought he had a puncture. Williams then told him to come back in, where the wheel was replaced. It turned out that the wheel was loose and not punctured.

The problem with what has happened here, is that it happened on a race weekend where Massa had had a serious incident, thus all the stewards were on red alert for any incidents that could be construed as life threatening to drivers or spectators.

I think Renault just got unlucky, as I dont believe the incident was a big deal. Renault got punished for it anyway, as Alonso went from leading the race, to retirement.

 

[Hxc]

that'd be like the ultimate warrior vs hulk hogan, or khan vs hatton.... or........

Hardly. MS was a different class to LH imo.

 

[deuse]

"Ferrari refuse to rule out a return for Michael Schumacher to stand in for Felipe Massa. Ferrari will make a decision as soon as possible." -- TheScuderia Twitter

LH Vs MS yes please

 

[sunama]

which would be pointless when MS is still under contract with Ferrari. As long as he gets fit enough in the next 4 weeks and as much simulator practice as possible, it could be a go.

Hamilton Vs Shuey would be epic

I actually dont feel that the McLaren car is as great as Hamilton made it look. McLaren have been saying that the car is about 0.4s slower than the leaders (Red Bull) and I think we can go along with that. On a faster, cooler track, the Red Bull cars would've nailed Hamilton at the pit stops.

I thought it was funny when they were interviewing Vettel and he sounded frustrated that he didnt have an active KERS button that the Ferrari and McLarens were sporting. I was thinking to myself, "Well, shouldnt you be telling your team that KERS is now an essential part weapon to have, instead moaning about it to TV cameras?" Its almost as if Vettel was suggesting that the KERS button is giving those teams using it, an unfair advantage.

I said this from day1 that racing without KERS is like going into a gunfight with a knife. You are going to get hammered at the start line and overtaking a slower KERS equipped car will be almost impossible.

The KERS cars can fill their cars slightly heavier. Qualify in 6th, say. Then on the startline, overtake the non-KERS pole sitter and begin to hold up the non-KERS cars that are actually faster over a single lap. Its a no-brainer and if I were McLaren, I would seriously be looking into doing some simulations on whether or not to ditch it. People are making out that no KERS in 2010 is a formality, but if it gives you an edge and if your driver is good at pressing buttons quickly, at the right time, then I would definitely keep it on the car.

Still, Red Bull can rest easy as they still have the fastest car and more importantly BrawnGP are going backwards, alarmingly fast.

PS. Before MS left, he already got his behind handed to him on plate by Alonso. Twice. I think MS retired at the right time.

 

[sunama]

Hardly. MS was a different class to LH imo.

I wouldnt quite say that. I think at the same stage in respective careers, MS had made fewer mistakes and was a more complete driver. What Hamilton has though is aggression and like Mansell, is terrifically exciting to watch. Alonso, IMO, remains the best driver in F1 right now, where Hamilton has a tendency to make too many mistakes.

 

[MarcLister]

Its a no-brainer and if I were McLaren, I would seriously be looking into doing some simulations on whether or not to ditch it. People are making out that no KERS in 2010 is a formality, but if it gives you an edge and if your driver is good at pressing buttons quickly, at the right time, then I would definitely keep it on the car.

All the FOTA teams have agreed, collectively, to ditch KERS for 2010. The FIA aren't getting rid of it but the FOTA teams won't use it. Can't see McLaren going against that just to get an advantage. Considering their recent run-ins with the FIA they don't want to irk the rest of the grid.

 

[clv101]

Can't see McLaren going against that just to get an advantage.

Just to get an advantage? Isn't that the single most important thing! If the KERS cars are at the top of pack by season end I'd expect any FOTA agreement to be torn up and for the manufactures with the technology to keep it.