HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

can someone explain to me why they have to use all the sets of tyres? There is clearly one better or favoured set (super soft i think) so why not just use them all the time?

I mean, its akin to asking wayne rooney to wear hiking boots for 20 minutes of the match..

seems like a stupid rule.
 
I mean, its akin to asking wayne rooney to wear hiking boots for 20 minutes of the match..

Yep! It's an attempt to vary the relative speeds of the cars during a race, to promote overtaking and make the race a better show. It's horribly artificial but I think it makes the racing more interesting to watch.
 
Yep! It's an attempt to vary the relative speeds of the cars during a race, to promote overtaking and make the race a better show. It's horribly artificial but I think it makes the racing more interesting to watch.

oh i see. hm, still not so sure about it. this is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport. let them go as fast as bleeding possible!
 
All the FOTA teams have agreed, collectively, to ditch KERS for 2010. The FIA aren't getting rid of it but the FOTA teams won't use it. Can't see McLaren going against that just to get an advantage. Considering their recent run-ins with the FIA they don't want to irk the rest of the grid. :)
I seem to recall that not so very long ago, one of the teams took advantage of the rules in a way that gave them a distinct competitive advantage . . . it may have been Brawn GP ;)
 
Just to get an advantage? Isn't that the single most important thing! If the KERS cars are at the top of pack by season end I'd expect any FOTA agreement to be torn up and for the manufactures with the technology to keep it.
If the FOTA teams decide there is potential with KERS then they may all agree to use it next year, if they want. But at the moment the FOTA teams have agreed not to use KERS. McLaren is a FOTA team so although they like KERS they've said they'll abide by the FOTA agreements. McLaren would be very stupid to just ignore what they've agreed with the other FOTA teams, use KERS and damage their reputation with the other teams.

I seem to recall that not so very long ago, one of the teams took advantage of the rules in a way that gave them a distinct competitive advantage . . . it may have been Brawn GP ;)

Brawn GP used a different interpretation of the new diffuser rules. They didn't go against a gentleman's agreement about the diffusers.

Watch the post race BBC F1 forum to see what John Howett of Toyota has to say about rules and regulations compared to gentleman's agreements between teams. :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8169795.stm
 
LH Vs MS yes please :)

If this happened, Schumacher would have to beat him in every race otherwise LH will be declared the world best driver ever because he finished ahead of Schumacher.

If it was 10 years ago with Hamilton replacing Hakkinen.. that'd be something.
 
I actually dont feel that the McLaren car is as great as Hamilton made it look. McLaren have been saying that the car is about 0.4s slower than the leaders (Red Bull) and I think we can go along with that. On a faster, cooler track, the Red Bull cars would've nailed Hamilton at the pit stops..

I dont believe hamilton outperformed the car at all, after all Kova finished 5th 18 seconds behind the red bull. Kovas not in the same class as hamilton but he still got 5th. The car just worked on that circuit. I agree the heat maybe helped or hindered red bull.

The car showed in the last race it was almost there but the start got kinda mucked up :D

I dont think it's a better car yet than the RedBull but with that Kers button they are going to be a lot of trouble really soon.

I'd be more than happy for Hamilton to keep on winning races.

One thing for sure I don't think Ross Brawn will be taking a factory break :D
 
Brawn GP used a different interpretation of the new diffuser rules. They didn't go against a gentleman's agreement about the diffusers.

But hang on, didnt some teams take BrawnGP to the World Council hearing where they wanted it and the BrawnGP car banned? And there certainly isnt wasn't gentlemanly about calling BrawnGP an arrogant man.

MarcLister, I have to disagree with you - if McLaren sense they can gain an advantage that could even bring them another title, they will have to stick 2 fingers up at the gentleman's agreement and run with the faster (KERS equipped) car.

Throughout the years, every team has fought tooth and nail to gain an advantage over their competitors. Thats the very essence of F1 - to win at almost any cost. So, if KERS is giving 1 team a decisive advantage, they are going to fight tooth and nail to keep it.

Do you honestly believe that having spent a year developing a car that works well with KERS, McLaren and Ferrari are going to ditch a device that gives them an advantage over their competitors?
 
All nuts have to have a secondary locking mechanism to prevent them from unwinding when out on track. That was obviously not in place otherwise the nut wouldn't have come off.
The lock is only there to prevent the wheel falling off immediately upon the nut coming loose. It does not prevent the nut coming loose.

It's merely a mechanism to give the driver a chance of slowing or stopping without having a wheel taking to the scenery, as Hakkinen's did at Silverstone or Alboreto's did at Imola.

Thats hilarious. Massa earnt the right to be a ferrari driver. Yes he did he got a todt as his manager otherwise he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. He was erratic, error prone and just about on the verge of the boot from f1. He even came up short against JV struggling with the braking system on the sauber.

He never looked good against any of his team mates.

Capelli had a woeful time in the ferrari but he did far more to deserve that seat than Massa did.
How the hell can you compare a guy who had the championship won until the final corner of the final lap of the final GP to one who couldn't give a single-GP winner even the slightest bit of pressure?

In essence, in terms of results and general luck:

Capelli=Piquet Jnr.
Massa=Mansell

Prior to sitting in that Ferrari he did nothing of note. Nothing sticks in the mind.
Diniz did nothing of note in the Forti, but come him moving to Prost and then Sauber, he quickly became a very decent driver. Nothing that special, but a hell of a big improvement on the vast mediocrity he'd shown previously.

Mika Hakkinen. In the Lotus he was quite promising, but seldom realised any potential he did show. Then in his first race for McLaren he outqualified the best qualifier there has ever been in Formula 1.

Same with Moss. And Rindt. And Scheckter. And Piquet. And Hill.

Some drivers only show their best when they've got a car they're comfortable and confident with under them. That's even clear with Hamilton this year.

I cant remember the exact details - but considering Surtees death and Massa accident, they should be considerably more cautious with ANY kind of potential debris
And disqualifying an entire team from the next GP is going to remove that debris in the previous race?

If they were concerned about debris (and after Imola '94, you could argue they wanted to show a bit of caution so soon after and not end up with an almost sport-destroying catalogue of tragedy) then they should have notified all the teams before the race that driving a damaged car, with potential to shed parts, would be punished harshly.

Suddenly pushing out draconian penalties for events which previously went unpunished is... quite extreme, to be kind.

I suspect the Renault legal representatives will have a field day in Paris.



For the record, Vettel drove around the track for a full 2 laps with his right-front wheel and suspension hanging off the car.

Kimi drove the last 10-15 laps at Nurburgring in 2005 with his right-front threatening to destroy itself.

Kimi again had his exhaust banging off of his own car at Magny-Cours last year for 1/3 of the race before it ended up flying off into the scenery.

Show me another situation where a team has knowingly sent a dangerous car out onto track and made no attempt to prevent it leaving the pit or even inform the driver of the risk....
Well, given that Brawn knew that Rubens had broken rear suspension from the first lap of qualifying... is the day before the incident in question soon enough?

Yes, it would be unfair to suggest that they knew it was apart to rip itself apart and litter the track with 900g springs and the like, but it was dangerous and they did send him out again regardless... even Barrichello himself said he was struggling to drive it on the straights, nevermind through the corners, so it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to suggest he might have crashed when it did break.
 
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But hang on, didnt some teams take BrawnGP to the World Council hearing where they wanted it and the BrawnGP car banned? And there certainly isnt wasn't gentlemanly about calling BrawnGP an arrogant man.
They did, mainly because they were so annoyed someone found a loophole in the rules they never saw.

MarcLister, I have to disagree with you - if McLaren sense they can gain an advantage that could even bring them another title, they will have to stick 2 fingers up at the gentleman's agreement and run with the faster (KERS equipped) car.
The decision of FOTA to not run KERS in 2010 came after the double-diffusergate I think. I think McLaren wouldn't stick two fingers up at the gentleman's agreement about KERS. They want to be in F1 with the other successful teams so that when they win they've beaten top teams. By walking away from FOTA they'd be shooting themselves in the feet as any split in the sport would see McLaren left as the big duck in the little pond. Disagree all you want but I can't see McLaren doing this. I've seen interviews with Martin Whitmarsh saying that despite their support for KERS McLaren won't use it next season along with the other FOTA teams. :)

So, if KERS is giving 1 team a decisive advantage, they are going to fight tooth and nail to keep it.
But they aren't going to fight tooth and nail to keep it; they've gone along with the FOTA decision to unilaterally not use KERS next year.

Do you honestly believe that having spent a year developing a car that works well with KERS, McLaren and Ferrari are going to ditch a device that gives them an advantage over their competitors?
I wouldn't say McLaren have developed a car that works well with KERS, I'd say they've developed an excellent KERS system. Martin Brundle has said that McLaren's KERS is/was the best on the grid.

Surely its better for McLaren to beat the other teams on identical rules rather than have people turn round and say, "Yeah well McLaren and Ferrari had KERS so they were always going to win". I wouldn't want people saying that about my team.
 
so its possible MS could be driving next month for ferrari?

would love to see LH and MS on same track up front

ill be cheering for LH like :)
 
I wouldn't say McLaren have developed a car that works well with KERS, I'd say they've developed an excellent KERS system. Martin Brundle has said that McLaren's KERS is/was the best on the grid.

So this would be about the first time in the history of F1, where a team willingly removes a gizmo that gives them a decisive advantage. In 1994 when the rules were revised and Williams had to de-evolve their 1993 car, which was arguably the most high-tech F1 car ever built, they were not happy. But they did it because the rules required it.

What you are saying is that McLaren, though the rules don't require it, will willingly take off the gizmo, to allow other teams to either move ahead of them or close the gap on them.

I just can't get my head around this concept, especially when you consider that teams spend £Millions every year, developing a car just so that it can go fractions of a second faster.

Surely its better for McLaren to beat the other teams on identical rules rather than have people turn round and say, "Yeah well McLaren and Ferrari had KERS so they were always going to win". I wouldn't want people saying that about my team.

I believe a team would rather win than come 2nd. Even if that means using equipment (KERS) that other teams have decided not to use. Remember, the FIA is not banning KERS, hence, it is well within the rules.

I know that Brits love losers and underdogs, but building a car which is slower is something that I can't see McLaren doing. McLaren have in the past done everything possible (legal and illegal) to win and now they have the opportunity to gain an advantage with a legal device, they are going to throw it away???

Anyway, lets just wait and see what happens.
 
so its possible MS could be driving next month for ferrari?

would love to see LH and MS on same track up front

ill be cheering for LH like :)

Forget LH, what about Button? 3 months ago it was all Button this, Button that, etc Some even proclaimed Button as MS's equal.

Button is the WDC leader and I'm still sure he will this year's title.

I dont have signatures viewable, but are there still a lot of BrawnGP sigs or have they vanished?
 
look at every post ive made in f1 threads LH and SV are all ive ever cheered on

bugger button ive never cheered for him, nice fella and was the underdogs but still never interested me

bring on LH and MS, now both mclaren and ferrari have caught up :)
 
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