Ian McNaughton goes out against The Way it's Meant to be Played

[Final8y]

Whilst it's obviously just a move from AMD's perspective to get the short term sales of their Radeon 5000 parts up by making DirectX 11 more important, it will at least eventually benefit everyone once they also get the hardware out. Moreover, DirectX 11 benefits people who even just have DirectX 10 graphics hardware, including those who bought from Nvidia, S3, Intel, whoever. Sure it's not a saintly move by ATi, they're doing it to benefit, but it's not got the long term effect of segregating the market because eventually all vendors will support DirectX 11.

That,s what basic marketing is about & if NV was first out with a DX11 card & was doing the same i would be happy as everyone would benefit as you say in the long run as the DX standard is for everyone & nether ATI or NV can restrict on who can have DX.

 

[NickK]

The EU commission fine Microsoft for bundling Media Player 12 and Internet Explorer, which I believe they're more than entitled to do, yet they appear to be overlooking nVidia's actions?

I don't think enough of the gaming market is impacted by this.

In short it's the same if you're running OSX but can't play the latest game because the company providing it isn't creating an OSX version of it.
It's not a legal issue, at the moment.
Intel vs AMD on the Apple platform is another example.

What is interesting is how did nVidia get EA to agree to a single technology thus causing 1/2 their potential market churn. Backhanders?

However AMD are playing the right game of name and shame. It's the same when BA attempted dirty tricks on Virgin and Laker.

My gut reaction is that EA will get cold feet as the gamers will respond.

What gamers want is a better experience lead by a common standards body. nVidia are attempting to off foot OpenCL in it's biggest market - nVidia are running scared that they're going to loose control of GPGPU for games.

 

[Martini1991]

That,s what basic marketing is about & if NV was first out with a DX11 card & was doing the same i would be happy as everyone would benefit as you say in the long run as the DX standard is for everyone & nether ATI or NV can restrict on who can have DX.

Nvidia are putting DX11 down, they're trying to act like it doesn't matter..

 

[Final8y]

The name calling really has to stop.

If you cant make a reasoned comment against what you have read then don't comment at all. as fanboy & Nvidiot.. or what ever is starting to get out of hand & being used in place of reasoned debate as a way of trying try to win an argument with no real answer at all.


At the end of the day its upto the individual whether ethics matters in there buying decisions.
But that does not mean that we should not discus it or make people aware or it or like it..

 

[NickK]

WOW, physx has really dramatically moved on..............

That's because the company buy out (cost and corporate structure chaos), cost and time making the Physx engine nVidia GPU based as a direct reimplementation of the existing platform (adding stuff is a severe risk - I've been a manager in that very scenario).

Chances are that the nVidia group that has Physx has used up it's budget and some.. hence no space for additional functionality. Now they have to go to market with a rehashed product and make it a success hence the EA fiasco..

Perhaps nVidia are attempting to show they have the stuff needed for the next generation of Xbox?

 

[Final8y]

Nvidia are putting DX11 down, they're trying to act like it doesn't matter..

That does not really matter as that is marketing talk, silly as it is tho in this case.

 

[Martini1991]

The name calling really has to stop.

If you cant make a reasoned comment against what you have read then don't comment at all. as fanboy & Nvidiot.. or what ever is starting to get out of hand & being used in place of reasoned debate as a way of trying try to win an argument with no real answer at all.


At the end of the day its upto the individual whether ethics matters in there buying decisions.

I'm sorry, but unless you're not aware, he doesn't respond to anything reasonably....

That does not really matter as that is marketing talk, silly as it is tho in this case.

Of course it matters. Nvidia are essentially the bigger GPU company and hold the larger share of the market, how exactly is PC gaming going to expand when Nvidia play down any innovation and advances?

 

[layte]

I'm sorry, but unless you're not aware, he doesn't respond to anything reasonably....




Of course it matters. Nvidia are essentially the bigger GPU company and hold the larger share of the market, how exactly is PC gaming going to expand when Nvidia play down any innovation and advances?

How is PC gaming going to expand when Nvidia pay developers to purposely sabotage games when competing technology is detected? Nvidia are going to be playing a dangerous game if they continue down that road, regulatory bodies do no look too lightly on that kind of behaviour.

 

[Martini1991]

How is PC gaming going to expand when Nvidia pay developers to purposely sabotage games when competing technology is detected? Nvidia are going to be playing a dangerous game if they continue down that road, regulatory bodies do no look too lightly on that kind of behaviour.

Which was my point....

 

[rancid_elf]

Surely Nvidia are just getting something back from investing in game development? I don't get why ATI don't do the same. It's all very well taking the moral high ground but it's not really going to solve the problem.

As Microsoft are in bed with Amd at the moment lets hope that they add some code in the windows base library to make sure no nVidia card could use AA or dx11. This wont happen but if it did I would be the first person directing you to THIS statement when you turned up here crying like a bloody child.

I am sorry but your comment is completely uneducated and buffoonish.

No company should have the right to do this is like going out and bying a blue ray film only to find you cannot use the extras on the disk because they will only work on a sony blue ray player because sony paid some dosh towards the film..

Microsoft were prosicuted in the anti-trust law suit by the American government for teh same antics...Lets hope nVidia gets the same for these tactics.

 

[Final8y]

I'm sorry, but unless you're not aware, he doesn't respond to anything reasonably....

I'm quite aware & sometimes give a silly response to some of his comments but i don't use blatant name calling.

Of course it matters. Nvidia are essentially the bigger GPU company and hold the larger share of the market, how exactly is PC gaming going to expand when Nvidia play down any innovation and advances?

That would be innovation and advances that are not exclusive to themselves.

 

[Martini1991]

I'm quite aware & sometimes give a silly response to some of his comments but i don't use blatant name calling.




That would be innovation and advances that are not exclusive to themselves.

Is DX11 an advance yes or no? Yes. Are Nvidia playing it down? Yes..

Exclusive or not, ATI are the only ones with a DX11 card at present, Nvidia (The larger company) are trying to say DX11 won't matter, what do you think games developers will do? Flood into make DX11 games, or focus on DX10? DX10.

 

[layte]

Which was my point....

My bad, reading this forum makes your brain melt sometimes.

 

[Martini1991]

My bad, reading this forum makes your brain melt sometimes.

Lol, it's fine.

 

[D1ngd0ng]

It's probably the developers doing, but they might come back & say well Nvidia paid us to have control of the features . . . . now that will be interesting as the EU will EAT Nvidias money just like Intel's

I doubt that the EU have the nous to see what if anything is happening (apart from likely poor coding on Rocksteady Studios part or maybe they were in a rush wouldn't be the 1st time a game has gone out far from ready)

i don't know about every penny, come on how much do the Graphics cards really cost them to make , no moving parts except a fan, the rest,,, well a load of capacitors and stuff, I'm guessing £40 tops

You forget the millions that Nvidia spend on research (both real tech research and re-branding) even the TWIMTBP program costs an obscene amount of money for what comes out at the other end

A story from August (presumably about all the faulty laptop chips)

We already knew that NVIDIA had to shell out anywhere from $150 to $250 million last year to resolve issues related to its defective GPUs, but it looks like that may have only been the beginning, with The Inquirer now reporting that the company has also been forced to pay an additional $119.1 million over the past four months to fix a faulty die and weak packaging material used in the affected graphics chips. What's more, NVIDIA apparently won't say whether it expects to incur any further charges related to the defective chips or not, although it simply describes the whole situation as "small distraction," and says it hasn't affected its ability to launch new products.

Personally I think people have to stop looking at this as some sort of fight between good and evil (a very American thing to do) and understand that Nvidia are not the axis of evil and ATI the good'ol US of A

Nvidia are putting DX11 down, they're trying to act like it doesn't matter..

Think Nvidia are trying to gain a much bigger share of pie than just gamers and DX11 which is why they have been pushing CUDA so hard as they have/are optimizing hardware for general purpose calculations rather than specializing on gaming like ATI

 

[Final8y]

Is DX11 an advance yes or no? Yes. Are Nvidia playing it down? Yes..

Exclusive or not, ATI are the only ones with a DX11 card at present, Nvidia (The larger company) are trying to say DX11 won't matter, what do you think games developers will do? Flood into make DX11 games, or focus on DX10? DX10.

That is a marketing comment aimed at the consumer to buy a an existing DX 10 card & hopefully a NV card or wait for the NV DX 11 card if you really need a Dx11 card.

Developers can see right through what NV has said with that statement.

Unlike DX10 that showed a performance hit from the off. so far DX11 has shown gains when doing no more than what was being done in lower DX versions.

 

['Wes]

Nvidia are putting DX11 down, they're trying to act like it doesn't matter..

Probably because they don't have anything solid to combat with ATI's cards, or the fact they are struggling to develop a DX11 card, which would make more sense for them trying to dismiss it's use and convince the gaming companies to stick with DX10.

Nvidia has a range of powerful cards from the GTX 260 - GTX 295. The problem is that they kept bringing out card, after card which was a mistake. If they stopped for a second and had a think before trying to compete with the 4870x2, then maybe the 295 could have been their DX11 edition.

 

[queamin]

As Microsoft are in bed with Amd at the moment lets hope that they add some code in the windows base library to make sure no nVidia card could use AA or dx11. This wont happen but if it did I would be the first person directing you to THIS statement when you turned up here crying like a bloody child.

I am sorry but your comment is completely uneducated and buffoonish.

No company should have the right to do this is like going out and bying a blue ray film only to find you cannot use the extras on the disk because they will only work on a sony blue ray player because sony paid some dosh towards the film..

Microsoft were prosicuted in the anti-trust law suit by the American government for teh same antics...Lets hope nVidia gets the same for these tactics.

I agree,if they do something to their competitor's card it is wrong as it effects the consumer of amd cards,i might be wrong but i feel like it would be like vw paying shell so ford owners only get 80% of mpg that they used too.

 

[Final8y]

I doubt that the EU have the nous to see what if anything is happening (apart from likely poor coding on Rocksteady Studios part or maybe they were in a rush wouldn't be the 1st time a game has gone out far from ready)



You forget the millions that Nvidia spend on research (both real tech research and re-branding) even the TWIMTBP program costs an obscene amount of money for what comes out at the other end

A story from August (presumably about all the faulty laptop chips)



Personally I think people have to stop looking at this as some sort of fight between good and evil (a very American thing to do) and understand that Nvidia are not the axis of evil and ATI the good'ol US of A



Think Nvidia are trying to gain a much bigger share of pie than just gamers and DX11 which is why they have been pushing CUDA so hard as they have/are optimizing hardware for general purpose calculations rather than specializing on gaming like ATI

The word the best or worst of 2 Evils is how most people look at companies as everyone knows what the bottom line is.

Indeed Nvidia are trying to gain a much bigger share of pie than just gamers and DX11, but no point in NV playing down DX11 to gamers in favour of non gaming focused feature even tho some parts of it could find its way into gaming.

 

[queamin]

I do think nvidia see the writing on the wall for low end gpu's when intel and amd pair them up with their cpu's on the same socket/die and they branching out to different areas.