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icecold's training log

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How do you define a high enough % to justify it? Glycogen depletion and properly stressing work I know from le book,, what more is there to it? Obviously different for everyone, but I'd like to think most people work their asses hard in the gym unless recovering from injuries or on mega deloads?
 
Soldato
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80%+ on a regular basis on all your big lifts, although I personally have not had a problem with 70%+ for the last few weeks while I have recovered a little from a niggly back.
 
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Honestly, I couldn't give you a definitive answer.

All I know is that there was a definite difference between how backloads doing Steedie's ridiculous routine feel compared to my normal training. My theory (also hinted at but not explained in the book) is that you need you need to be hitting high % of neural activation. This means that while you might be putting just as much perceived effort into a maximal 12 rep set as a maximal 5 rep set, you are only hitting higher activation with the 5 rep set. I suspect that as long as you do some lower rep work every day you'll be fine.

Another layer of complication lies with body part splits. Just using common sense, there no way you'll be able to translocate as much tGLUT on an arms day compared to a legs or back day.

I've never had to deal with these problems as strength training ticks all of the right boxes. Practically speaking, I don't think it will make a huge amount of difference, but it might be something to keep an eye on.
 
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Cons:
- backloads aren't as fun as they sound
- if you don't train at a high enough %, you shouldn't backload
- some people find low carbing to be a ballache

Pros:
- backloads are EXACTLY as awesome as they sound most of the time
- mad lean gainz
Agreed, some back-loads can be rubbish.... others own. Difficulty is finding something sugary you don't mind eating. I've realised eating mass chocolate just isn't for me. Pizza seems to be the best option.

As an addition, the preparation phase is terrible.

As for %, if you are sweating all over the place and literally dripping on the floor, then you'll be fine. If you are squatting, that should be the case anyway.

Yay for mad lean gainz \o/
 
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Thanks Syla/Ice/Nitefloozle, that's exactly how I took it from reading the book and thinking about it over the past couple of days but it's always good to hear people's real life experiences experiences of it.
 
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Does this mean that Steedie trying CBL over complicates things?

kd
No, for two reasons:

1) The routines that Steedie gave to me were particularly low load and high on metabolic stress (30 second rests, super sets on the same muscle groups), even compared to what Steedie normally does.

2) I haven't done a few weeks worth of routines like that, so I don't know for certain that what I'm talking about is definitely a thing.

I highly suspect that if your routine resembles circuits rather than proper resistance training then CBL won't work properly, because that's what the book says anyway. Otherwise, tossing some high load sets (near maximal <8 rep sets) into a normal 10-12 rep routine will be fine.

I think Keifer has exercise programmes suited for CBL if anyone is interested enough to look them up.
:(

You mean I can't backload on arms day?

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I did, the full 400g too.

All I'm saying is that I'm not sure if doing a FULL backload if you're doing an arm day every week is a good plan in the long run.

It's not as simple as just saying that though. You might need an extra backload anyway for recovery, you might be doing another workout day the next day, etc. etc.

For example, my arm day was the day after comp day, so I was still absolutely smashed and in need of the extra recovery.

Eventually you'll be able to feel when you should be adding or taking away from your backloads (either with reduction or removal). It's like Keifer says, either you feel tight and dry or a bit puffed up, and from there you can adjust accordingly.
Thanks Syla/Ice/Nitefloozle, that's exactly how I took it from reading the book and thinking about it over the past couple of days but it's always good to hear people's real life experiences experiences of it.
I think I'd be very lost if I didn't initially have people telling me about it IRL. 80% of the diet is simple as ****, but the book does it's best to hide that.
 
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It's simple, but difficult in it's simplicity. You are told to avoid low-GI carbs, so I find myself avoiding things like lasagne or risotos because of the pasta and rice respectively - you can't, or rather you shouldn't, eat them even on your backload. This means you start eating things like 'pack of sausages' with maybe the additional side of broccoli. 'Cooked meals' and recipies have somewhat gone out of the window. I think that's a bit crap, but it's what it encourages you to do. It's also quite hard not to become obsessive about it for fear of putting yourself through the nauseating preparation stage again.

Other massive negative - my concentration still doesn't seem to be operating at 100%, although I've taken measures to limit this and I'm coping better. Really it's not surprising, you are probably going to function mentally better with some carbs in you.

Other potential negative - not sure on the long term effects with regards to the pancreas / diebetes. I just can't imagine it being good for you in the long term considering the stress you are putting on your body, even if it is intermittant.

But the results speak for itself. The fat has flown off, not sure if I've gained any strength but that's not my goal. I have never had such rapid fat loss before.
 
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Bro, I don't agree with any of that!

It's simple, but difficult in it's simplicity. You are told to avoid low-GI carbs, so I find myself avoiding things like lasagne or risotos because of the pasta and rice respectively - you can't, or rather you shouldn't, eat them even on your backload.
Firstly, white rice is a fantastic carb source for a backload. Pasta less so, but...

Secondly, it doesn't matter! If you fancy having a pasta meal, a backload is the PERFECT time for it. Is it optimal? No, but you're talking about a couple of percent difference to your daily outcome.

You should be trying to make this diet work for you, rather than restricting what you can have in your "cheat" portion of the day. Don't have brown rice/pasta, but don't worry about everything else. Even bread is ok.
This means you start eating things like 'pack of sausages' with maybe the additional side of broccoli. 'Cooked meals' and recipies have somewhat gone out of the window. I think that's a bit crap, but it's what it encourages you to do. It's also quite hard not to become obsessive about it for fear of putting yourself through the nauseating preparation stage again.
C'mon man! There are thousands of meals you can cook. All you've done is default to the meals you normally turn to when you're cutting.

Low carb:
- salad with meat <---- that should be enough variety there anyway, most dressings are low carb too
- meaty soup
- stew
- meat and veg (this is where you live, but what about the other veg and meats!)
- chicken with avocado with olive oil and a splash of lemon
- tuna mayo

High carb:
- curry with loads of rice
- ANYTHING with loads of rice
- pasta meals
- anything high carb you've been craving
...in fact, this is too easy for me to carry on listing :p

You are making this WAY too difficult. Tbh you're massively setting yourself up to get sick of the diet.

It would be INCREDIBLY hard to mess with your system enough to need to do the prep phase again. We're talking eating carbs all day for a week, probably more.
Other massive negative - my concentration still doesn't seem to be operating at 100%, although I've taken measures to limit this and I'm coping better. Really it's not surprising, you are probably going to function mentally better with some carbs in you.
As I've said to you, this is false. If you're completely carb depleted, as in the prep phase, then maybe. But your body should be coping because you should be eating enough fats.
Other potential negative - not sure on the long term effects with regards to the pancreas / diebetes. I just can't imagine it being good for you in the long term considering the stress you are putting on your body, even if it is intermittant.
CBL is going to be better for your pancreas than most other things. Why? You're dealing with 1 insulin spike per day. Yes, it's a big spike, but compare this to the bad scenario of lots of spikes throughout the day, and not letting your levels return to baseline ever.
But the results speak for itself. The fat has flown off, not sure if I've gained any strength but that's not my goal. I have never had such rapid fat loss before.
But yes, it is extremely effective.

You've already done the hard part (and it is very hard!) and are seeing good results, so now you need to be minimising difficult bits.
 
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I've just realised my whole concept of cutting and bulking has been flipped upside down. If I were bulking I'd like to eat cleanly if I'm eating massive amounts. If I was cutting, I think I'd try CBL...

Clean eating whilst bulking, dirty eating whilst cutting... Something's bit right in the world...

kd
 
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You get insulin spikes from protein too - just not as much. Fats certainly MCTs are not very insulinogenic.
This is true, and it's why you can't consume a lot of whey during your low carb (aka low insulin) portion of the day.

The insulin spike from protein in meat doesn't seem to cause a problem in terms of interrupting fat burning.
 
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