icecold's training log

[Nitefly]

Bro, I don't agree with any of that!
Firstly, white rice is a fantastic carb source for a backload. Pasta less so, but...

Secondly, it doesn't matter! If you fancy having a pasta meal, a backload is the PERFECT time for it. Is it optimal? No, but you're talking about a couple of percent difference to your daily outcome.

You should be trying to make this diet work for you, rather than restricting what you can have in your "cheat" portion of the day. Don't have brown rice/pasta, but don't worry about everything else. Even bread is ok.

C'mon man! There are thousands of meals you can cook. All you've done is default to the meals you normally turn to when you're cutting.

Low carb:
- salad with meat <---- that should be enough variety there anyway, most dressings are low carb too
- meaty soup
- stew
- meat and veg (this is where you live, but what about the other veg and meats!)
- chicken with avocado with olive oil and a splash of lemon
- tuna mayo

High carb:
- curry with loads of rice
- ANYTHING with loads of rice
- pasta meals
- anything high carb you've been craving
...in fact, this is too easy for me to carry on listing

You are making this WAY too difficult. Tbh you're massively setting yourself up to get sick of the diet.

You are completely right about white rice. I should aim to be less boring in the kitchen. I'm managing fine with the diet though.

As I've said to you, this is false. If you're completely carb depleted, as in the prep phase, then maybe. But your body should be coping because you should be eating enough fats.

Despite considerably upping my morning fat intake, it appears to me to be true. I'm just speaking from my personal experience, take it or leave it, that's how I felt. I am continuing to up my MCT intake.

CBL is going to be better for your pancreas than most other things. Why? You're dealing with 1 insulin spike per day. Yes, it's a big spike, but compare this to the bad scenario of lots of spikes throughout the day, and not letting your levels return to baseline ever.

I can't really comment further on this as I was purely speculating. I'm not convinced either way. It certainly isn't 'normal' though.

You've already done the hard part (and it is very hard!) and are seeing good results, so now you need to be minimising difficult bits.

Agreed!

 

[icecold]

Have you looked into the cinnamon stick fat loss drink? It's all about the cinnulin process.

I used to consume a lot of cinnamon for exactly this! In fact I'm pretty sure I learned about it from your posts <3

Unfortunately, I don't think it's compatible with the way CBL works.

As far as I remember (could well be mistaken here ), cinnamon helps to improve sensitivity to insulin. One of the quirks of CBL is that this is actually the opposite of what you want to happen in terms of localised short term effect. Just to make up some numbers, assume that cinnamon would increase insulin sensitivity for 2 hours. That's great for the average Joe who's response is all jacked up, but CBL assumes that you've already got a balanced insulin response (either by default or because you've done the prep phase).

Given that insulin causes all tissues to absorb glucose equally, this causes sugars to be sucked into fat as well as muscle. Again, this isn't a huge problem for your average Joe, because any extra absorption by muscle is a bonus. If you're doing CBL, you're trying to avoid glucose uptake by fat cells as much as possible. Pre-training, you're trying to avoid insulin spikes as much as possible (it's even suggested to use caffeine around meals for it's insulin desensitising effects). Post training, you rely on non-insulin facilitated glucose transport into skeletal muscle via the action of GLUT-4 and GLUT-12 (iirc!), which are translocated to the cell membrane via mechanisms stimulated by high load training.

Of course, that all hinges on my understanding of the mechanisms of cinnulin. I think Keifer mentions it in the book though.

I think you'd find the book interesting btw, given that you're probably even more of a geek than I am with this stuff!

1)You are completely right about white rice. I should aim to be less boring in the kitchen. I'm managing fine with the diet though.


2)Despite considerably upping my morning fat intake, it appears to me to be true. I'm just speaking from my personal experience, take it or leave it, that's how I felt. I am continuing to up my MCT intake.


3)I can't really comment further on this as I was purely speculating. I'm not convinced either way. It certainly isn't 'normal' though.


Agreed!

1) I think it's very important to make sure that eating is as enjoyable as possible. I happen to know that you're a good cook, so get on with it!

2) Of course, I not suggesting that you're lying or anything!

Just to toss some ideas around for a second...

I wonder if it's some left over effect of using cheese during your prep phase. If you're feeling a bit better now that you're not having cheese during the day, it might stand to reason that it was similarly interrupting fat burning processes during the prep phase. If this is the case, hopefully it'll just be a matter of a week or so before your body adjusts.

Either way, you're doing the right thing anyway in upping your MCTs.

3) It's definitely not "normal", but then what is?

I think it's fairly safe to say that CBL is superior to the vast majority of protocols on the basis of a few points:

- Your insulin sensitivity is good. This is a huge one, in that it's a principal concern for "pre-diabetes" and "metabolic syndrome".

- You're sometimes avoiding significant insulin spikes for almost 2 days

The simple fact that CBL allows for efficient use of fat burning energy systems strongly hints that it's a considerable improvement to the way the average modern person functions (obviously, only looking at this fairly limited subset of betterness).

Does the sheer amount of carbs you end up consuming in one go negate these benefits? I don't know. For some of them, this is self evidently not the case (fat burning systems being active), but I wouldn't want to make a sweeping statement of general healthiness.

All I can say is that I feel very good, but in terms of energy and recovery.

 

[Nitefly]

Lowering the cheese has helped a lot. I still chomp on it in the evenings, because then it doesn't really matter if I'm a zombie or not.

Interesting comments regarding the health side of things - I guess it can't be much worse or better than other 'extreme' diets.

N'awww I'm glad you appreciate my 'cooking'

 

[icecold]

I just hope you make some earlyin the day energy gains soon, can't be fun with your job!

When I take MCTs now, it's like an instant shot of energy. Kind of like a sugar rush but without the sugar.

Well you made a stew one time, and then grilled a lot of burgers

 

[icecold]

Oh yeah...

Training 20/2/13

Deads
bar x lots - hmmm, I didn't notice how tight my adductors were until now
60x10
100x5
140x3
160x1 - really not getting a good line, bar is quite far away from shins. Speed was silly though
180x1
200x1
220x3 quad/adductor pain :/
200x5 still uncomfortable. I could have done more sets here, there wasn't any danger of snapping. However, in the long run fixing whatever is jacked up is is more important than some slightly gay heavy-ish reps. Very frustrated by the lack of work done, so decided to get some hypertrophy volume in.
180x10
180x10
Satisfying at least! Definitely going to deload deadlifts considerably and work up slowly. Felt most of the of the fatigue from the 10 rep sets in my glutes, which may or may not be important.

RDL
140x5
Glutes fatigued from silly deadlifts, and also not particularly interested in adding hamstring fatigue to my squats on friday.

Tricep cable superset
12x3

Cable rear delt
15x2

Kroc rows
45x25reps

Annoying session! Maybe some day deadlifting will be my friend again, but it is not this day!

However, bodyweight is up a bit compared to 2 weeks ago, and lean-ness is only very slightly diminished. Joocy gainz.

 

[mrthingyx]

Your rows are lol-tastic...

As is the notion of hypertrophy at 180kg for deads!

 

[LiE]

How's your quest to make gains going?

 

[Freefaller]

I used to consume a lot of cinnamon for exactly this! In fact I'm pretty sure I learned about it from your posts <3

Unfortunately, I don't think it's compatible with the way CBL works.

As far as I remember (could well be mistaken here ), cinnamon helps to improve sensitivity to insulin. One of the quirks of CBL is that this is actually the opposite of what you want to happen in terms of localised short term effect. Just to make up some numbers, assume that cinnamon would increase insulin sensitivity for 2 hours. That's great for the average Joe who's response is all jacked up, but CBL assumes that you've already got a balanced insulin response (either by default or because you've done the prep phase).

Given that insulin causes all tissues to absorb glucose equally, this causes sugars to be sucked into fat as well as muscle. Again, this isn't a huge problem for your average Joe, because any extra absorption by muscle is a bonus. If you're doing CBL, you're trying to avoid glucose uptake by fat cells as much as possible. Pre-training, you're trying to avoid insulin spikes as much as possible (it's even suggested to use caffeine around meals for it's insulin desensitising effects). Post training, you rely on non-insulin facilitated glucose transport into skeletal muscle via the action of GLUT-4 and GLUT-12 (iirc!), which are translocated to the cell membrane via mechanisms stimulated by high load training.

Of course, that all hinges on my understanding of the mechanisms of cinnulin. I think Keifer mentions it in the book though.

I think you'd find the book interesting btw, given that you're probably even more of a geek than I am with this stuff!

Yup basically Cinnulin helps promote fat loss by improving your insulin sensitivity. It reduces the rate glucose enters the body (thus avoiding spikes of blood sugar) and aids with the usage of glucose within the cell. Over time, it can reduce fasting blood glucose and potentially cholesterol levels as well (though I cannot find more than "supposed" evidence for the cholesterol, and we all know it's not that much of an issue anyway).

It does possess a liver toxin, called coumarin, which can be harmful in high doses, but that's why you pour boiling water over the sticks, and let it cool down and have it as a cold drink - or have it as a hot drink - I used to have it in a thermos - about a pint or so a day. I did lose some of bodyfat very clearly, but I got bored of it and stopped.

I won't go into the whole MHCP or systemic workings as if I'm honest I don't know it off the top of my head and will have to look it up - however, I remember reading about it extensively and feeling the science was sound.

I may get the book, as you say I love this geeky stuff! However as you say it may not be right for CBL, but for fat loss after a CBL regimen may help further? Though I guess you could use cinnamon during the "fasting" stages, and then keep away from it during a carb load meal?

 

[Nitefly]

Me and icecold have discussed the impact of cinnamon in a CBL routine before, I think the consensus was 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it'.

 

[LiE]

Ice, I dropped you and Dom an email with links to download all your comp lifts in HD. Not sure if you got it.

 

[Delvis]

Nice one, if it makes a difference I've got mine saved still, although they are on the tube.

 

[LiE]

Quick question. Going to do some squats after deadlifts tomorrow, so doing it twice a week. Monday I'm doing 5s, so not sure how to attack squats on a Friday. Don't want to over do it and kill Monday's gains but also need to help keep me progressing. I'm thinking I could do paused reps.

 

[icecold]

Well there are three options:

1) More regular squats. As you identify, your recovery capacity will decide if you can do this.

2) Tempo variations. Paused squats, speed squats, etc.

3) Squatting variations. Box squats, high bar and fronties would be the useful ones here.


If you're comfortable adding in paused squats then go for it. I'd eventually look to play around with all of the options though.

 

[LiE]

Thanks, I'll have a play with things.

 

[icecold]

Training 22/02/13

Mobility x lots

Squats
bar x lots
60x12
100x5
140x5
160x1
185x5 easy
185x5 easier
185x5 GOOD GOD TOO MUCH SALTS. Somehow got it all up in my sinuses, and it almost felt like I was having a panic attack. Massive disorientation ensued. Sat down for a couple of minutes, but I wasn't un-psyching at all! It felt like I was in the middle of a 100m race. Salts PB.
185x5 back to normal, short rest into
185x5 GAINS. Short rest
185x5 GAINZ
Short rests apparently result in glute pump

Curl supersets
some x swolertrophy

Mobility x lots

Fatigue x 10

 

[icecold]

Training 23/2/13

Back to back training days D: Quick session today, start of my deadlift deload.

Deads <90 second rests on work sets
60x10
100x5
140x5
180x5x5
Cardio!

Neutral grip bench
Shoulder still not 100% so left it. It's almost better now though.

Power shrugs - just because. Shoulders pinned back for those rehab gains. 90 sec rests
150x8
200x6
200x8
200x8

YTWL
15 reps on each

Pull ups
bw x 10x4

 

[mrthingyx]

Power shrugs at 200kg? Get Olympic lifting. You and Dom would be awesome!

 

[LiE]

Some crazy squats ice, impressive!
Why the deadlift deload?

 

[Delvis]

Ice, you got a decent Vid for the YTWLs? X

 

[Freefaller]

30 reps of 185kg squats. Ridiculous,.