Indonesia Executions

[Wazz-1]

That's why you import it from somewhere it grows easily. Once legal it would cost no more than mangos and oranges to produce.

Illegal sellers are going to have trouble keeping their costs that low of growing in the UK. The only thing they could do is import illegally and avoid the tax that would certainly be levied on it (much like tobacco).

Not talking about drug dealers growing, I am saying users growing their own, I am a keen gardener and would look on it as almost a hobby breading and hybridizing for a bit of fun almost like brewing your own wine.

It still wouldn't be that expensive, in an industrial greenhouse I see no reason it would be much more expensive than many commercially grown plants.

Growing on a large scale under glass or indoors has huge cost implications that would be past on to the consumer, growing a few plants ones self has non of the associated costs. The studies have already been done. If I can find some info I will post it up, not sure it wouldn't break any rules tho and this is taking the thread off topic.

 

[glenimp617]

Surely life in prison would be punishment enough

why should the tax payer have to suffer for other peoples mistakes

They knew the law of the land, they evaluated the risks and took the chance

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

why should the tax payer have to suffer for other peoples mistakes

I agree, ANOTHER reason why the death penalty should be outlawed.
(You come across very ignorant on the subject matter!)

 

[Threepwood]

"Prohibition didn't work in the Garden of Eden. Adam ate the apple."
-Vicente Fox


“Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes.”
―Abraham Lincoln


"For every prohibition you create you also create an underground."
-Jello Biafra


"Prohibition has made nothing but trouble."
-Al Capone

.
.
.

"Remember kids, don't buy Drugs.. Become a Pop Star and they will give you them for free."
-Bill Nighy



Will end with this (more philosophical) quote from Alejandro Jodorowsky:

"We have to be very conscious of the fact that beneath every illness is a prohibition. A prohibition that comes from a superstition."

 

[Johno please?]

The message is never received though. People will always try to smuggle drugs. It's the same as people still killing in the US. Capital punishment is not an efficient deterrent.

Its an effective punishment though, they won't do it again will they.

However I'm only pro death penalty for murderers.

For example, a case I think about now and again. Sophie Lancaster, the fact that you can be complicit in an unprovoked attack on a girl that lead to her death and only go to jail 4 yrs sickens me.

"Mallett was sentenced to four years and four months, and the Hulme brothers for five years and ten months each"

 

[tbyeah]

Its an effective punishment though, they won't do it again will they.

They aren't going to with life in prison.

 

[shadow_boxer]

So many people's lives would be made a misery from their actions.

They knew what was at stake, yet still decided to gamble with their lives and lost.

They need to face up to thier actions and bite the bullet.

As harsh as it sounds I agree. Drug smuggling on this scale is as bad as murder and rape in my opinion and the death penalty isn't over the top. Sadly I didn't hear the international community condemning the execution of an Indonesian house maid/slave in Saudi in a case of self defence.

Feel for their families but they risked it and lost.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Its an effective punishment though, they won't do it again will they.

However I'm only pro death penalty for murderers.

What about the 4.1% innocent people that are murdered
Collateral damage ?

One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent, Study Claims

 

[glenimp617]

What about the 4.1% innocent people that are murdered
Collateral damage ?

One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent, Study Claims

The death penalty should ONLY be used when everyone is absolutely 100% without any doubt. If that can't be achieved, then there should not be a death penalty period.

You might say, well how can anyone be 100%......that's obvious. If someone walks into a busy high street in front of CCTV cameras, camera crews, police and starts shooting hundreds of people.....well, that's a safe bet isn't it.

It's a grey area, as some criminals might be driven by gangs where they are told to break the law else their family will be murdered. Obviously you wouldn't give the death penalty for those.

There are cases where the death penalty should be enforced

 

[cheesyboy]

As harsh as it sounds I agree. Drug smuggling on this scale is as bad as murder and rape in my opinion and the death penalty isn't over the top. Sadly I didn't hear the international community condemning the execution of an Indonesian house maid/slave in Saudi in a case of self defence.

Feel for their families but they risked it and lost.

Smuggling goods which are willingly consumed by the end user is as bad as rape and murder?!

 

[glenimp617]

Smuggling goods which are willingly consumed by the end user is as bad as rape and murder?!

It's the law in that country. The criminals knew what would happen if they were caught. You have to look at the odds, the chance against getting caught and being killed versus the rewards if you don't. They calculated, and took that risk.

It's like buying shares. Only invest with the money you can afford to lose. They risked their lives, so from their point of view the rewards were worth risking their lives for.

Now.....it's not a black and white issue. Did they do this of their own accord, did someone else put them up to it? only when you have a fair and balanced trial can you come up with a verdict which involves the death penalty. This also has to include quite heavily the risk to public safety.

 

[cheesyboy]

It's the law in that country. The criminals knew what would happen if they were caught. You have to look at the odds, the chance against getting caught and being killed versus the rewards if you don't. They calculated, and took that risk.

It's like buying shares. Only invest with the money you can afford to lose. They risked their lives, so from their point of view the rewards were worth risking their lives for.

Now.....it's not a black and white issue. Did they do this of their own accord, did someone else put them up to it? only when you have a fair and balanced trial can you come up with a verdict which involves the death penalty. This also has to include quite heavily the risk to public safety.

It was the law in the UK that homosexuality was illegal. So we chemically castrated Alan Turin.

We should just shrug and accept it I guess. He knew the rules.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Because it's barbaric, ineffective (as a deterrent), uncivilized and ultimately allows the criminals to dictate the morality of our society/species!

According to YOUR ethics etc. . Their are lots of countries that have laws which we find strange/abhorrent and there are countries that find our laws in the same way. It comes down to the same thing ... their country, their laws. If you are stupid enough to break them then you take the consequences.

Just because it's in another country doesn't mean we can't be outraged by it and air our views, by your logic we should also stand idly by as gay people are executed and women are stoned to death.

The people in this country are elastic when it comes to condemning. When it comes to so-called allies like some mid eastern countries we hear little condemnation.

Peacefully protesting is how these things can and do get changed, your indifferent un-empathetic attitude simply allows these atrocity's to continue

You mean empathising with your views rather than empathising with the people of Indonesia. Peacefully protesting rarely gets things changed... politicians ignore peaceful protest. Usually it is when protests become violent that politicians take notice. I am not indifferent at all I am merely pointing out that these people knew the risks and carried on regardless.

 

[glenimp617]

It was the law in the UK that homosexuality was illegal. So we chemically castrated Alan Turin.

We should just shrug and accept it I guess. He knew the rules.

wow, that's quite a stretch

are you trying to say that in the future drug trafficking or mass murder would be legal? if so, I don't think I want to live in that world myself.

I think you aren't being serious though, or taking what I have said a little bit to the extreme, which is fine as this is GD

 

[JAzz]

So a gay man travelling through Saudi Arabia should be executed?

I'm not aware of the Saudi's executed any gay men travelling through their country. I believe Muslim men in that country are forbidden from homosexual activity but never heard of foreign men being executed just for being gay and entering the country. I don't know if this is true but in Dubai showing too much affection to your partner in public is an offence, either abide by those rules or don't go in the first place.

Anyway that isn't the point, the example you've given is of a lifestyle choice whereas these guys were supposedly big time drug smugglers. So you're comparing two extremes. These guys were smuggling drugs into a country that carries the death penalty. Where there is that much risk there is extra money to be made hence why they bringing in drugs. It is not like when they committed the offence the laws were different and suddenly the government has pushed through new laws just to execute them. They knew exactly what the risks were.

You go to a foreign country you should respect their law and culture, if you don't then don't complain if you get in trouble.

 

[cheesyboy]

wow, that's quite a stretch

are you trying to say that in the future drug trafficking or mass murder would be legal? if so, I don't think I want to live in that world myself.

I think you aren't being serious though, or taking what I have said a little bit to the extreme, which is fine as this is GD

Your giving of a free pass to the execution was, based on the post to which I was responding, entirely predicated on their activity being illegal and punishable by death. My juxtaposition of the Alan Turin punishment was an attempt to challenge your belief in the righteousness of law.

 

[glenimp617]

You go to a foreign country you should respect their law and culture, if you don't then don't complain if you get in trouble.

Agreed ^

We are, on the whole, a very ignorant country

I travel a bit with work, and have gone to saudi multiple times to configure IT systems. You do not go to a foreign land expecting them to change their ways to suit you.

It's YOU who has to adapt to THEIR way of life. If the law of the land is not to kiss people in public, hey, guess what, you DONT KISS PEOPLE IN PUBLIC

 

[glenimp617]

Your giving of a free pass to the execution was, based on the post to which I was responding, entirely predicated on their activity being illegal and punishable by death. My juxtaposition of the Alan Turin punishment was an attempt to challenge your belief in the righteousness of law.

what about the bottom part of that post?

You are right though, if they were absolutely guilty and the law was the death penalty then fair dos.......it's not for us to judge other countries laws. That doesn't mean I agree with it, but I do accept it

We think everyone should live the way we do, wow, talk about an ego!

 

[olivier renault]

It was the law in the UK that homosexuality was illegal. So we chemically castrated Alan Turin.

We should just shrug and accept it I guess. He knew the rules.

Homosexuality isn't a choice.

 

[FishFluff]

wow, that's quite a stretch

are you trying to say that in the future drug trafficking or mass murder would be legal? if so, I don't think I want to live in that world myself.

I think you aren't being serious though, or taking what I have said a little bit to the extreme, which is fine as this is GD

50 years ago (or 'today' if we're talking about GD...) there were people who thought being gay is an abomination. In Roman times having sex with children was perfectly fine. In some enlightened countries at the moment drugs are becoming more acceptable. Societiy's attitude to things change all the time and it usually takes the law a lot longer to catch up.