Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

[jigger]

Which part of E cores and P Cores are on a Ring bus = Mesh Bus am I missing?

At least I've bothered to link some diagrams and articles, as opposed to literally making stuff up


Either post evidence or give it a rest (Put Up or Shut Up as it were)

That the E cores are a monolithic mesh…

 

[JediFragger]

edit - del.

 

[jigger]

Either post evidence or give it a rest (Put Up or Shut Up as it were)

Look at your own post maybe…

 

[Armageus]

Look at your own post maybe…

 

[Rroff]

With plenty of Ecores available HT isn’t really needed and if Ecores keep improving at the rate they are then P cores may end up going too.

Then you suffer the latency’s of a mesh topology and require more memory channels.

What Jigger is referring to I believe here is that the E cores are clustered into micro-meshes of 4 which have a single connection to the ring bus, so scaling them up to replace P cores/hyper-threading doesn't really work - as then you get the worst of ring stop latency on top of the negatives of best case latency from the mesh side.

No idea why they've decided to make such a mess of discussing it though.

 

[Armageus]

Which makes sense, except there doesn't seem to be any actual source (Intel or otherwise) that confirms that the E cores definitely are using a mesh (or ring or crossbar or indeed anything else )

 

[Dave2150]

I’m looking forward to the new Intel chips. Not had an Intel since 5930K:X99, really hope they put out a platform like that again, 40 gen5 PCIe off the CPU + quad channel RAM at Less crazy prices than the workstation stuff.

Skylake release quickly made Haswell E obsolete though - as Skylake's IPC was noticeably higher and clocked higher thanks to a better process. Think it was less than a year that Haswell-E had the spotlight.

 

[FredFlint]

Skylake release quickly made Haswell E obsolete though - as Skylake's IPC was noticeably higher and clocked higher thanks to a better process. Think it was less than a year that Haswell-E had the spotlight.

What’s your point, new stuff is better? X99 was a great platform, could even drop a 18 core Xeon in. I used it 7 days a week for > 7 years. P.S: Skylake sucked

 

[Rroff]

Which makes sense, except there doesn't seem to be any actual source (Intel or otherwise) that confirms that the E cores definitely are using a mesh (or ring or crossbar or indeed anything else )

I'm assuming most communication between them is via the shared L2 cache anyhow.

EDIT: Best I can find on that:

Meteor Lake’s E-Cores behave like the ones on Alder Lake. Coherency is handled at the ring bus. Core-to-core transfers within an E-Core cluster take longer than crossing cluster boundaries, possibly because that requires a full round trip on the ring. The low power E-Cores aren’t ring bus clients, and rely on Meteor Lake’s Scalable Fabric to handle coherency. They suffer far higher latency.

Meteor Lake’s E-Cores: Crestmont Makes Incremental Progress

Efficiency cores, or E-Cores for short, sit front and center in Intel’s consumer CPU strategy. The company introduced E-Cores to its mainstream lineup in Alder Lake, where they sat alongside …

chipsandcheese.com

Which suggests the quad core clusters don't have an internal mesh topology.

 

[hedgey]

14700K also has additional E cores for what that is worth. I've so far seen very little benefit from APO sadly, only a small number of titles which it supports.

Yes the 14700k is basically the 13900k for less money.

 

[Dave2150]

What’s your point, new stuff is better? X99 was a great platform, could even drop a 18 core Xeon in. I used it 7 days a week for > 7 years. P.S: Skylake sucked

My point was pretty obvious, X99 was quickly eclipsed for gamers and those using productivity workloads that were lightly threaded, as Skylake had better clocks and IPC. Pretty average/sub standard platform to be eclipsed so quickly after release IMO.

 

[FredFlint]

My point was pretty obvious, X99 was quickly eclipsed for gamers and those using productivity workloads that were lightly threaded, as Skylake had better clocks and IPC. Pretty average/sub standard platform to be eclipsed so quickly after release IMO.

The IPC change was like 2-4% (typical for Intel at that time). X99 was a great platform for users that do more than just game, and it was great for games too. Considering it was also priced not to far above the normal desktop stuff, it was a no brainer for me, 40 PCIe lanes, Quad Channel RAM (8 slots), lots of PCIe slots on the mb’s(that worked without disabling other stuff). Haswell E also overclocked well (4.2-4.6Ghz).