Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

[humbug]

They've managed to raise money - they're in a too big to fail spot, so one week after they announced financial trouble, they've received $9 billion in subsidies

Intel's taxpayers welfare payments aren't indefinite or without strings, no government is going to pay a cooperation just to exist without any benefit to the taxpayer who are paying them to exist, that's not how this works.

They are being given this money to establish themselves as a globally leading chip foundry in the US, if they can't deliver that the government will take that foundry away from them as compensation for all the taxpayers money they have received and sell it to someone who can turn them into what the US government want them to be.

There is no such thing as free money and being under the government thumb is the very last thing any corporation wants, its the most desperate last resort move.

PS: they need Nvidia, Apple and AMD's help to stop that from happening.

 

[Joxeon]

Intel's taxpayers welfare payments aren't indefinite or without strings, no government is going to pay a cooperation just to exist without any benefit to the taxpayer who are paying them to exist, that's not how this works.

They are being given this money to establish themselves as a globally leading chip foundry in the US, if they can't deliver that the government will take that foundry away from them as compensation for all the taxpayers money they have received and sell it to someone who can turn them into what the US government want them to be.

There is no such thing as free money.

PS: they need Nvidia, Apple and AMD's help to stop that from happening.

Intel is a strategic asset to the US government, no other US company has the chip making expertise to come and run the foundry other than intel.

 

[humbug]

Looking at reviews of the mobile chips - the low load/idle power consumption is incredible,but under load it doesn't beat AMD in efficiency.

Low idle power consumption on a chips that is never idle.

Intel is a strategic asset to the US government, no other US company has the chip making expertise to come and run the foundry other than intel.

Intel are not an asset to the US, what Intel have is an asset to the US and Intel have run those assets in to the ground. Intel are a liability to what the US will soon consider its assets.

 

[humbug]

When you take the top US chip designers, Nvidia, Apple, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, Texas Instruments.... what percentage of those American chips are Intel's? 10% to be generous?

The US need all those guys to make their chips in the US, that's the whole point of all of this, those guys are saying "not with Intel in control of the fabs"

 

[adamsleath]

https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm

In a historic announcement, in May 2020, TSMC shared its plans to invest $12B in Phoenix, Arizona – building an advanced semiconductor manufacturing fabrication. In December 2022, the company announced its commitment to build a second fab in Phoenix, increasing its total investment to $40B. Then in April 2024, the U.S. Department of Commerce and TSMC Arizona announced up to US$6.6 billion in direct funding under the CHIPS and Science Act, fulfilling a goal to bring the most advanced chip manufacturing in the world to the United States. TSMC also announced plans to build a third fab at TSMC Arizona. This third fab brings TSMC’s total U.S. investment to more than $65 billion, making this the largest foreign direct investment (FDI) in Arizona history, and the largest FDI in a greenfield project in U.S. history. Now with a third fab, TSMC Arizona will create approximately 6,000 jobs – and more than 20,000 accumulated unique construction jobs, as well as tens of thousands of indirect supplier jobs.

As one of TSMC’s advanced fabs, TSMC Arizona will play a vital role in the U.S. government’s goal to onshore semiconductor manufacturing and strengthen national economic competitiveness.

I think some people should also look at the marketshare Intel has. globally.

but yes there are considerable, as in massive, infrastructure costs. months and years prior to any merch. coming from it.

also. the total market is only yay-big. when one player rises , the others fall by a comensurate amount.

 

[humbug]

https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm

I think some people should also look at the marketshare Intel has. gloablly.

Out of US chips? IDK but AMD alone have 35% against Intel, you add Nvidia, Apple, Qualcomm, Texas Instuments..... to that, its probably not even a double didget number.

Just a few more percentage points and AMD starts to look like 50% against Intel.

This is the problem, Intel cannot sustain its own fabs with what they have alone, not by a very very very long way.

 

[adamsleath]

there are oodles of them.
chips? what sort though.
mediatek, samsung, and every other 'chip maker' micron. hynix. crucial etc etc.

again what that funding is about is increasing the onshoring of 'silicon' (chips) in the u.s.

35%

of X86 cpu's

the mobile phone market is bigger than the pc market. but the pc market is substantially large. it is also crowded out by other digital devices.
==

AMD records its highest server market share in decades — Intel fights back in client PCs

Another strong quarter for AMD.

www.tomshardware.com

Intel continued to dominate the client PC market in the second quarter of 2024, securing a 78.9% market share, while AMD held 21.1%. This outcome is expected, considering the strength and variety of Intel's client product lineup. Still, AMD managed to increase its unit share by 0.5% sequentially and by 3.8% year-over-year. Despite AMD's ongoing success, it will likely take the company years to achieve the sales growth needed to fully shift the market in its favor, not only because Intel dominates corporate PC sales but also because of Intel's access to vast production capacity.

 

[humbug]

there are oodles of them.
chips? what sort though.
mediatek, samsung, and every other 'chip maker' micron. hynix. crucial etc etc.

again what that funding is about is increasing the onshoring of 'silicon' in the u.s.

of X86 cpu's

Its not about X86, its about high performance processors, they don't want high compute capacity processors made outside of the US, its the compute power that's strategic, not X86, its compute processors of all kinds, including GPU's, especially GPU's those having the highest compute capacity of them all.

 

[humbug]

You don't think the US government use GPU's for their compute capacity needs? Do you think they only use Intel CPU's? Of course not... You think that because Intel claim to be strategically important to the US, they are no more strategically important to the US than AMD and especially Nvidia, what Intel have is of interest to the US government, those fabs, without those Intel are nothing more to the US than AMD, its why Intel so desperate to hold on to them.

No one who is actually critical to a government shouts about it, notice Nvidia don't make the same claims, half of congress have investment in Nvidia.

 

[adamsleath]

Its not about X86, its about high performance processors, they don't want high compute capacity processors made outside of the US, its the compute power that's strategic, not X86, its compute processors of all kinds, including GPU's, especially GPU's those having the highest compute capacity of them all.

and?
"of all kinds"

keep pouring your spare dollars into nvidia shares then.
Jensen can only sell so many millions$$ in shares on a monthly basis, limited by their corporate charter.

not sure what point you are making.

I prefer a diversity of corporate offerings. over a monopoly.

China make Cpu's as well. perhaps we'll see them sometime soon.
Mobile phones with mediatek chips in them have the largest marketshare in the world. not apple. nor any other 'western' company.

nvidia has too much of the market right now in my opinion. i think they need to be brought back to earth. i dont like monopolies gobbling up the whole world and leaving no room for others.

 

[humbug]

and?
"of all kinds"

keep pouring your spare dollars into nvidia shares then.
Jensen can only sell so many millions$$ in shares on a monthly basis, limited by their corporate charter.

not sure what point you are making.

I prefer a diversity of corporate offerings. over a monopoly.

China make Cpu's as well. perhaps we'll see them sometime soon.
Mobile phones with mediatek chips in them have the largest marketshare in the world. not apple. nor any other 'western' company.

nvidia has too much of the market right now in my opinion. i think they need to be brought back to earth. i dont like monopolies gobbling up the whole world and leaving no room for others.

I agree with you but AMD and Intel need to become more competitive in the GPU space and then we need to drop our brand snobbery and buy them for things to change.

 

[adamsleath]

I did not expect you to agree.
heh.
but yes i'd prefer there to be multiple offerings at various pricepoints. i like to have choices. even if they are limited. and as I did with AMD when they were actually struggling for marketshare in the past, so I tend to have some sympathy for Intel in their current 'woes' i just want them to stay in the game and also to deliver better products. that's all . Ive had an amd pc and an intel pc concurrently since they brought out the opteron (64bit)...same as now, and going forward.

 

[humbug]

I did not expect you to agree.
heh.
but yes i'd prefer there to be multiple offerings at various pricepoints. i like to have choices. even if they are limited. and as I did with AMD when they were actually struggling for marketshare in the past, so I tend to have some sympathy for Intel in their current 'woes' i just want them to stay in the game and also to deliver better products. that's all . Ive had an amd pc and an intel pc concurrently since they brought out the opteron (64bit)...same as now, and going forward.

Intel are a bull in the china shop that is this space, decades ago this space used to be very multichoice vibrant but Intel wanted it all for its self and they were very good at taking it all, almost a 100% success rate, only one survivor. I want to see Intel remain but i also want to see them completely dehorned and unable to throw their weight around, i'd like to see this space opened up to more competition.
Right now they are using taxpayers welfare to hold AMD down, so they are still finding ways to do it, what AMD need to do is make sure that Intel need to keep going back with the beginning bowl, until the US government see them as a liability, that is already starting to happen.

Anyway... right now i have an all AMD system, Ryzen 5800X + RX 7800 XT, this after 8 years of Nvidia GPU's, i've had Intel CPU's and i may even go back to Intel, depending on how Arrow Lake stacks up.