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Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

Grim5 said:
In that hot hardware interview, they asked Robert if Intel is planning to introduce 3D Vcache to its future CPUs, to which Robert smiled and said "I can't talk about that right now"


It's hard to know if he smiled simply because he knows it's something everyone is talking about or if he smiled because Intel does have Vcache in its roadmap for future architecture
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I think they’ve got something planned (discussed back in 2023 by the CEO). They won’t talk about it for a while, because that could put people off from buying current AL CPUs.

TSMC knows how to package this kind of technology, so it would be odd not to introduce products to compete with AMD.

Also, it’s not impossible that Intel might consider a vcache type of CPU for the LGA1700 socket, as well as 1851, in a similar way that AMD did for AM4, to great success with the 5800X3D.
 
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Rroff said:
Personally not convinced AL is fully fixable, sure they can maybe patch over some issues.
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Yep, I'll believe it when I see it. At the moment I see it more as damage limitation with a "fix" sometime in the future.

People are more likely to buy something now if they believe all the issues being experienced now will be soon sorted.
 
Grim5 said:
In that hot hardware interview, they asked Robert if Intel is planning to introduce 3D Vcache to its future CPUs, to which Robert smiled and said "I can't talk about that right now"


It's hard to know if he smiled simply because he knows it's something everyone is talking about or if he smiled because Intel does have Vcache in its roadmap for future architecture
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He also explained why he cant speak about it in that video due to legal reasons which can effect the company.
 
g67575 said:
Well, I wish them luck in fixing their 15th gen lineup by December. It’s good to see a full acknowledgment of the issues, even though they phrase it like it’s not a widespread problem. 80ns latency minimum isn’t ideal, but maybe it doesn’t impact performance as much as previously thought.
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Sub 80ns is achievable on ARL, as I have demonstrated earlier in this thread.

One the Cache / NGU / D2D and Memory have tweaked to where they are happy you are looking low 60 high 50s.

ARL more than others responds well to high frequency of RAM. As performance does seem to scale with memory speeds.

When speaking of memory speeds ARL should have a base speed of 6400, as anything less will reduce performance further.

Here is the Intel ARK for the 285K:https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-285k-36m-cache-up-to-5-70-ghz.html
 
RSR said:
He also explained why he cant speak about it in that video due to legal reasons which can effect the company.
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They need to do something anyway and 3d vcache would be a helpful thing for sure. Shame to see intel doing so badly. They banked on core count and that hasn't paid off for them yet.
 
Aurhinius said:
They need to do something anyway and 3d vcache would be a helpful thing for sure. Shame to see intel doing so badly. They banked on core count and that hasn't paid off for them yet.
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If the rumours are to be believed, Nova Lake will feature a "3D V-Cache" variation well it's not the same as it will be on the Intel Forevos packaging. However, on the subject of 3D V-Cache / Gaming if you are gaming over 1440P / 4K etc... Results will level out as you tend to be more GPU-limited at that point.

It is what it is with Intel at the moment, I know plenty of people who are quite happy to see if fail.
 
I think Intel must try to make it as easy as possible for 15th gen. customers. If it can be done via new BIOS presets and firmware designed to optimise latency, that would be ideal.

If the latency is lowered to 70ns or 60n (As reported by Aida64 memory / latency test) do we see a corresponding improvement in gaming performance? Does a 285K with a latency of 60ns, match the gaming performance of a 13900K or 14900K at approx. 60ns, assuming an identical memory configuration?
 
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g67575 said:
I think Intel must try to make it as easy as possible for 15th gen, customers. If it can be done via new BIOS presets and firmware designed to optimise latency, that would be ideal.

If the latency is lowered to 70ns or 60n (As reported by Aida64 memory / latency test) do we see a corresponding improvement in gaming performance? Does a 285K with a latency of 60ns, match the gaming performance of a 13900K or 14900K at approx. 60ns, assuming an identical memory configuration?
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1. In terms of MB Presets, after the Drama Lama of 13th and 14th they may well avoid that option but I guess its one to watch.
2. Not sure about the 285K, matching the performance of 13900K/KS & 14900K / KS. I'd have to run a few tests (Are there any specific games you had in mind?) and confirm but do you also mean at stock or with an OC on it?

I'm still waiting on the G.Skill CK DIMMs, so I am a bit limited to how far I can push the RAM around ~9000 is where I have got it to at the moment which also is a crazy amount of bandwidth.

Extra Notes:

Changed defaults: Intel(R) Innovation Platform Framework and VT-d to ‘Enabled’. Ensure the corresponding IPF or DTT drivers are also installed to ensure system stability. - I understand this was one of the complaints from the reviews, so APO should now be enabled by default.
 
Maybe Intel could develop some bespoke software to test and possibly optimise 15th gen desktop CPUs.

It basically analyses performance and lets you know if any settings need to be changed.
 
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g67575 said:
Maybe Intel could develop some bespoke software to test and possibly optimise 15th gen desktop CPUs.

It basically analyses performance and lets you know if any settings need to be changed.
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For tweakers a chart of sweet spots should apply to most, otherwise the defaults are probably safer if you don't know better and those defaults should be tuned.
 
Seems like DDR8000 / 8200 MT/s is the way to go at the moment, you can get a 2x16GB kit (XMP) for around £120, with a sub 10ns first word latency.

It’s damned cheap! Even for an AM5 build, I think it’s a good idea for a new build.

Spec sheet here:

For this XMP profile:
Tested Frequency Profile 1: PC5-65600 (8200MT/s)
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Can you just dial back the frequency on an AM5 system, to 6000 MT/s (or maybe 6400 MT/s) at 1:1?

And leave the memory timings alone?
 
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g67575 said:
TSMC knows how to package this kind of technology, so it would be odd not to introduce products to compete with AMD.
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Intel probably package their own chips? it seems to be the one thing they are good at and got orders for fast from amazon or whomever it was that wants to use intels packaging process.

Although I don't think it's the process on this node that are interested in.
 
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RSR said:
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Very interesting. MSI ahead again with BIOS options. Just as they were with the 105w TDP mode on some Ryzen 9000 series CPUs.

Would've been nice if MSI had included the 1% lows, I think that's what most gamers will want to see.

There's clearly a difference in most games, with the 8200 MT/s memory running at a lower latency :)

COD and Black Myth Wukong seem to not be affected much.

If Intel can find a way to reduce the total latency down to 60 ns (that can be applied uniformly across all systems with sufficient hardware), hopefully that will go a long way to correcting the performance issues.
 
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