Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

[humbug]

Its the same everytime Intel launch a new product, they make a huge song and dance about it, throw around CEO maths numbers and everyone goes "oh... This Time there will be this big chunk performance update and everything will be brilient...."

Then reality bites, performance is pretty much the same, the penny pinching TIM gets worse with each new genaration and the only thing with Intel that has an upward trend is the price.

But its ok, Next Time it will all be brilient....

 

[GAC]

Its the same everytime Intel launch a new product, they make a huge song and dance about it, throw around CEO maths numbers and everyone goes "oh... This Time there will be this big chunk performance update and everything will be brilient...."

Then reality bites, performance is pretty much the same, the penny pinching TIM gets worse with each new genaration and the only thing with Intel that has an upward trend is the price.

But its ok, Next Time it will all be brilient....

well gotta wait for the prices and performance numbers yet

 

[Simon Belmont]

I think Intel was saying reason for using Tim was because soldered core x chips success rate was very low?

 

[humbug]

And yet AMD do just fine with Soldering the HS. ^^^^

well gotta wait for the prices and performance numbers yet

Well, the one and only thing happened in the last half decade, IMO, is this

I know 'Toms Hardware Maths' say the 7700K is the best thing in the world because the only thing that matters are 3 cherry picked games no one plays anymore and the only one oddity, not the price of it, not the £150 cooling they used 'and it needs, short of deliding' to get to the clock speeds they tested at, not any performance outside of thier hand picked 4 games because we all know the 7700K gets mullured everywhere else.... no... just a couple of old games, thats the world for these CPU's and all PC Hardware users kind.

For anyone who can see #### like that ^^^^ for exactly what it is CoffeLake is going to be a hard act to follow, so hard infect that if Intel even tried their shareholders would have a collective heart-attack.

This is the problem when a company gets to where Intel are at, its based on a model of minimum investment for established products and massive returns, if suddenly they can't maintain that model shareholders get very very nervous, so they invest as much in PR as they do in R&D for established products.

This is why Intel are so guilty on minimal incrementalism, they will work harder now as they have competition but AMD can never really threaten Intel, Intel have too much money, money buys you mind-share.

Most recent PcPer podcast, taking the #### out Ryzen because it has 64 PCIe 3 lanes, as if that was something of a joke, as if Intel limited to 48 was a much better idea, AMD always the clowns to be laughed at.

Since when was having more PCIe lanes a point of contention... it is if you're not Intel.

 

[jaffveyda]

Its the same everytime Intel launch a new product, they make a huge song and dance about it, throw around CEO maths numbers and everyone goes "oh... This Time there will be this big chunk performance update and everything will be brilient...."

Then reality bites, performance is pretty much the same, the penny pinching TIM gets worse with each new genaration and the only thing with Intel that has an upward trend is the price.

But its ok, Next Time it will all be brilient....

Few extra quid added, CPU being overclocked to limits, temps go up, customers are happy

 

[SiDeards73]

And yet AMD do just fine with Soldering the HS. ^^^^



Well, the one and only thing happened in the last half decade, IMO, is this

I know 'Toms Hardware Maths' say the 7700K is the best thing in the world because the only thing that matters are 3 cherry picked games no one plays anymore and the only one oddity, not the price of it, not the £150 cooling they used 'and it needs, short of deliding' to get to the clock speeds they tested at, not any performance outside of thier hand picked 4 games because we all know the 7700K gets mullured everywhere else.... no... just a couple of old games, thats the world for these CPU's and all PC Hardware users kind.

For anyone who can see #### like that ^^^^ for exactly what it is CoffeLake is going to be a hard act to follow, so hard infect that if Intel even tried their shareholders would have a collective heart-attack.

This is the problem when a company gets to where Intel are at, its based on a model of minimum investment for established products and massive returns, if suddenly they can't maintain that model shareholders get very very nervous, so they invest as much in PR as they do in R&D for established products.

This is why Intel are so guilty on minimal incrementalism, they will work harder now as they have competition but AMD can never really threaten Intel, Intel have too much money, money buys you mind-share.

Most recent PcPer podcast, taking the #### out Ryzen because it has 64 PCIe 3 lanes, as if that was something of a joke, as if Intel limited to 48 was a much better idea, AMD always the clowns to be laughed at.

Since when was having more PCIe lanes a point of contention... it is if you're not Intel.

Ironically a couple of months ago people were laughing at AMD Ryzen for having limited PCIE lanes, seems AMD are damned if they do and damned if they dont? The whole thing right now is laughable, it seems people will scrabble out any excuse to justify purchasing overpriced Intel products over AMD, the latest is "Oh Soldered IHS are bad for your CPU" and then next breath "Intel are using cheap TIM".

So wait AMD are bad for using Soldered IHS, Intel are bad for using cheap TIM and not soldering the IHS, its so confusing right now.

I honestly think people have gone into meltdown that they just cant comprehend that there is a viable and cheaper alternative to overpriced Intel Chips, that they absolutely must have to find something to focus on to bring AMD down and justify paying over the odds to Intel.

Its almost like some self loathing mechanism where you just dont want to admit to yourself that you have been ripped off by Intel for the past xx years and actually thanked them for it.

 

[GAC]

Its almost like some self loathing mechanism where you just dont want to admit to yourself that you have been ripped off by Intel for the past xx years and actually thanked them for it.

its been said many times before but buyers remorse is very strong even when you have been proven wrong.

 

[zornyan]

Ironically a couple of months ago people were laughing at AMD Ryzen for having limited PCIE lanes, seems AMD are damned if they do and damned if they dont? The whole thing right now is laughable, it seems people will scrabble out any excuse to justify purchasing overpriced Intel products over AMD, the latest is "Oh Soldered IHS are bad for your CPU" and then next breath "Intel are using cheap TIM".

So wait AMD are bad for using Soldered IHS, Intel are bad for using cheap TIM and not soldering the IHS, its so confusing right now.

I honestly think people have gone into meltdown that they just cant comprehend that there is a viable and cheaper alternative to overpriced Intel Chips, that they absolutely must have to find something to focus on to bring AMD down and justify paying over the odds to Intel.

Its almost like some self loathing mechanism where you just dont want to admit to yourself that you have been ripped off by Intel for the past xx years and actually thanked them for it.

I havnt seen anyone actually say amd is bad for soldering the cpus.

I do think people are jumping the gun on the TIM issue,for first the TIM itself is fine, even der8auer said at computex he does not think the TIM is being used for cost cutting measures, and the TIM itself is good quality that will last for many many years.

the issue (which wasn't an issue with skylake or devil's canyon) with kabylake is the glue used to fix the IHS to the die, it is being applied slightly, ever so slightly too thick, this causes a small gap between the IHS and die causing poor heat transfer.

I mean if you delidded a 7700k, just removed the glue and kept the oem TIM in place you would get basically 90% of the temp reduction you would if you used liquid metal too.

now, obviously it's a 'wait and see' issue, but I highly doubt it's the same issue with skylake, since it's built on a different process than kabylake and has a much bigger IHS.

we've seen a 7900x running 4.5ghz benchmarked and never exceed 82c, with a heatsink just placed into of it with a fan leant up against it (so weaker than an evo212 cooler)

coffeelake should have the issue resolved too, I imagine it was an issue when kabylake cpus were being assembled, overall coffeelake should run cooler than kabylake due to being on the 14nm++ process which is more power effecient.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

I havnt seen anyone actually say amd is bad for soldering the cpus.

I do think people are jumping the gun on the TIM issue,for first the TIM itself is fine, even der8auer said at computex he does not think the TIM is being used for cost cutting measures, and the TIM itself is good quality that will last for many many years.

He thinks its good quality but also revealed a delidding tool for the CPUs. Seems to contradict each other

 

[GAC]

He thinks its good quality but also revealed a delidding tool for the CPUs. Seems to contradict each other

he probably means its ok for normal usage and mild overclocking but if you want the best results you gotta delid.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

he probably means its ok for normal usage and mild overclocking but if you want the best results you gotta delid.

Is it not expected that TIM should work under normal conditions and upto temperatures reached under intel boost, or have we not come to expect that from intel?

Surely the fact that it works in those conditions is nothing noteworthy and therefore not worth mentioning. Its like being surprised that your car doesn't overheat while driving down the motorway.

 

[zornyan]

He thinks its good quality but also revealed a delidding tool for the CPUs. Seems to contradict each other

he still has to sell his product I guess?

Is it not expected that TIM should work under normal conditions and upto temperatures reached under intel boost, or have we not come to expect that from intel?

Surely the fact that it works in those conditions is nothing noteworthy and therefore not worth mentioning. Its like being surprised that your car doesn't overheat while driving down the motorway.

the only thing we have seen is the 10 core running 4.5ghz and being cooled by probably the most ghetto rigged air cooler to date, and it's staying under 85c during benchmarks.

I would like to say that my h115i is far more effective than what luck_noob used...

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

the only thing we have seen is the 10 core running 4.5ghz and being cooled by probably the most ghetto rigged air cooler to date, and it's staying under 85c during benchmarks.

I would like to say that my h115i is far more effective than what luck_noob used...

I saw that video and i'm not convinced of how truthful it is. Considering that people are complaining about temp issues on 7700k and toms hardware had to use a custom cooling loop to get a 6950x to 4.3GHz or something. I don't believe you can use a single tower CPU cooler with a fan that's not even attached and get 4.5 GHz on a 10 core CPU.

 

[zornyan]

I saw that video and i'm not convinced of how truthful it is. Considering that people are complaining about temp issues on 7700k and toms hardware had to use a custom cooling loop to get a 6950x to 4.3GHz or something. I don't believe you can use a single tower CPU cooler with a fan that's not even attached and get 4.5 GHz on a 10 core CPU.

no reason to disbelieve it, he has the cinebench scores, luck_noob is one of the top overclockers in the world, the temp readings are being shown by the motherboard itself.

I can't actually see how he could have falsified any of that run.

people complain about issues on the 7700k, not the 6700k, or the 4790k which both use TIM.

broadwell e was just a bad overclocker in general, I had a 5960x at 4.7ghz with 1.35v and that never exceed 80c under stress tests with a h115i. from the looks of it skylake e needs less voltage to hit higher clocks.

 

[humbug]

Don't pretend Intel using TIM has never been a problem for thermals and that no one was bothered by it until Skylake.

Thermal overcloking issues with Intel CPU's has been going on and complained about since they started using TIM instead of solder with Ivy Bridge. it is not that the problem never existed before now, its just getting worse.

I have a 4690K which at 4.7Ghz runs hotter than the sun under the same KRAKEN X31 that cooled an FX-9590 @ 5Ghz perfectly fine, the latter used 3x more power, the only difference is a Soldered Heat Spreader on the FX-9590 vs TIM on the 4690K.

Just think what the 4690K would do with a Soldered heat spreader, you know, like Sandy Bridge regular doing 5Ghz +

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Single tower CPU cooler (where the fan isn't even mounted correctly), keeping a 10 core CPU running at 4.5GHz on all cores is enough reason not to believe it. If it was true then there would be no reason to not have 4.5 GHz as base speed for the CPU.
The only way i see it happening is if Intel have come across some wonder silicon that sips voltage like 125cc moped sips fuel. Heck you could probably stick it in a laptop downclock it a bit and get 6+ hours of battery life. 8 pack is probably binning 10 core parts that can hit 5GHz as we speak.

Just checking your talking about this video right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyz2gkyIoXI&t=190s

 

[zornyan]

Single tower CPU cooler (where the fan isn't even mounted correctly), keeping a 10 core CPU running at 4.5GHz on all cores is enough reason not to believe it. If it was true then there would be no reason to not have 4.5 GHz as base speed for the CPU.
The only way i see it happening is if Intel have come across some wonder silicon that sips voltage like 125cc moped sips fuel. Heck you could probably stick it in a laptop downclock it a bit and get 6+ hours of battery life. 8 pack is probably binning 10 core parts that can hit 5GHz as we speak.

Just checking your talking about this video right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyz2gkyIoXI&t=190s

yeah that video.

to be fair, Intel have put it as 4.5ghz on two cores, and 4.3ghz on all cores, considering from stock you can usually run lower Volts than it comes with, it wouldn't surprise me that this is essentially stock voltage with +200mhz overclock. which by all accounts isn't that far fetched.

Don't pretend Intel using TIM has never been a problem for thermals and that no one was bothered by it until Skylake.

Thermal overcloking issues with Intel CPU's has been going on and complained about since they started using TIM instead of solder with Ivy Bridge. it is not that the problem never existed before now, its just getting worse.

I have a 4690K which at 4.7Ghz runs hotter than the sun under the same KRAKEN X31 that cooled an FX-9590 @ 5Ghz perfectly fine, the latter used 3x more power, the only difference is a Soldered Heat Spreader on the FX-9590 vs TIM on the 4690K.

Just think what the 4690K would do with a Soldered heat spreader, you know, like Sandy Bridge regular doing 5Ghz +

I've got a 7700k here, not delidded, h115i with 700rpm static on the fans, 1.375v and 5ghz oc, doesn't exceed 73c after 2 hours of realbench, mostly mid 50s in gaming like bf1.

 

[gavinh87]

yeah that video.

to be fair, Intel have put it as 4.5ghz on two cores, and 4.3ghz on all cores, considering from stock you can usually run lower Volts than it comes with, it wouldn't surprise me that this is essentially stock voltage with +200mhz overclock. which by all accounts isn't that far fetched.



I've got a 7700k here, not delidded, h115i with 700rpm static on the fans, 1.375v and 5ghz oc, doesn't exceed 73c after 2 hours of realbench, mostly mid 50s in gaming like bf1.

That is hot in comparison to soldered heatspreaders. I have a ryzen 8 core at 1.35v Corsair h100i on the minimum setting and I only hit 72c using intel burn test on maximum stress.
A quad core should be icy cool compared to this but evidently it's not.

 

[zornyan]

That is hot in comparison to soldered heatspreaders. I have a ryzen 8 core at 1.35v Corsair h100i on the minimum setting and I only hit 72c using intel burn test on maximum stress.
A quad core should be icy cool compared to this but evidently it's not.

don't forget kabylake uses avx2 instructions which create much more heat than normal instructions during some of these stress test., which afaik amd doesn't make use of avx2/512.

if I use something like aida64 (without fpu which uses avx instructions ) it runs much cooler.

 

[gavinh87]

don't forget kabylake uses avx2 instructions which create much more heat than normal instructions during some of these stress test., which afaik amd doesn't make use of avx2/512.

if I use something like aida64 (without fpu which uses avx instructions ) it runs much cooler.

Avx is not used in realbench....
Your realbench temps are higher than my 8 core using full avx testing.
Intel definitely has a TIM problem.