Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

Chuk_Chuk · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:06

GAC said:
iv said it before and il say it again, look at the steam survey and you will see the main issue. 44.8% of steam users have 2 cores, and 49.21% have 4. now not sure how much extra work it involves in making games use all cores but if it does cost more than a small amount of cash to the devs/publishers i can see this dragging on a while longer but it will change as devs have found out having them extra cores being used comes in handy to offload stuff to and at the very least help a game run smoother rather than balls to the wall fps numbers.

The reason most people have 2 core cpus because that all you get on low end computers.
The reason most people have 4 cores is because that is the most affordable gaming CPU for the past 5 - 10 years. I believe the steam survey doesn't count hyper threading. So all i5 and i7 are bunched as one.

AMD is planning on relegating 4 core cpus to the low end computers.

GAC · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:16

Chuk_Chuk said:
The reason most people have 2 core cpus because that all you get on low end computers.
The reason most people have 4 cores is because that is the most affordable gaming CPU for the past 5 - 10 years. I believe the steam survey doesn't count hyper threading. So all i5 and i7 are bunched as one.

AMD is planning on relegating 4 core cpus to the low end computers.

yeah but thats not the point im making, the point is that game devs will probably use steam (blizzard have their own i think in bnet) to work out what peoples specs are and then produce software based on what they see as a good cross section of the market.

Simon Belmont · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:23

I wonder how much better the 7820x or 7800x would be next to a 6 core coffeelake?

gavinh87 · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:27

GAC said:
yeah but thats not the point im making, the point is that game devs will probably use steam (blizzard have their own i think in bnet) to work out what peoples specs are and then produce software based on what they see as a good cross section of the market.

I wouldn't pay attention to the steam hardware survey. For example, it reckons more people have the gt730 than the 1080.
Do you think devs are catering for this audience?

zornyan · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:28

Simon Belmont said:
I wonder how much better the 7820x or 7800x would be next to a 6 core coffeelake?

technically the 8700k *should* be faster than the 7800x.

it's on a newer process, and it's mainstream vs hedt.

it could just be clocked (or overclock) 200mhz more. but overall that's what we should expect.

Chuk_Chuk said:
The reason most people have 2 core cpus because that all you get on low end computers.
The reason most people have 4 cores is because that is the most affordable gaming CPU for the past 5 - 10 years. I believe the steam survey doesn't count hyper threading. So all i5 and i7 are bunched as one.

AMD is planning on relegating 4 core cpus to the low end computers.

but that's still just amd, their products are new and not every single person is buying an amd cpu.

with a realistic 5% market share at best (that's of yearly sales) you're talking roughly 4-5 yesrs before amd cpus have a good 20% of the market in total, some of those will be 4 cores still, so that's still where most devs will optimise.

DragonQ · 30 Jun 2017 at 14:46

gavinh87 said:
Completely out of the loop of coffeelake.
What are the chances of these working on Z270 boards in the future?

We don't even know if Coffee Lake uses the same socket as Z170/Z270, let alone whether it'll be compatible...

gavinh87 · 30 Jun 2017 at 15:19

DragonQ said:
We don't even know if Coffee Lake uses the same socket as Z170/Z270, let alone whether it'll be compatible...

Which was why I was asking. I can't find much info...

GAC · 30 Jun 2017 at 15:24

gavinh87 said:
I wouldn't pay attention to the steam hardware survey. For example, it reckons more people have the gt730 than the 1080.
Do you think devs are catering for this audience?

more people who have taken part in the steam survey, the issue is we dont know hard numbers so for all we know the sample size could be 100k or 1 million. but its all we have to go off of for now. like i said blizzard may have a better idea with the bnet app if it takes info or at least wow logins any mmo for that matter probably logs info once in a while to give the devs an idea how far they can push things or at least plan future builds.

Chuk_Chuk · 30 Jun 2017 at 17:30

GAC said:
yeah but thats not the point im making, the point is that game devs will probably use steam (blizzard have their own i think in bnet) to work out what peoples specs are and then produce software based on what they see as a good cross section of the market.

The point i'm making is that 4 cores will be seen as low end soon enough and mainstream gaming will soon be a minimum of 6/8 cores. Developers (the good ones anyway) will need to find a way to scale from 4-8 cores.

Doobedoo · 30 Jun 2017 at 18:51

Imo 4 cores have now reached low end status, you wouldn't want to go any lower than my i5 which is why my next upgrade will have 6 cores minimum, most likely 8.

Games are already moving down that path it just the natural progression, whether that'll be 3 years or 5 to fully adopt doesn't matter, what matters is that it happens.

It's not just about gaming either it has benefits for those who want to do more than just game and more than just one thing at a time.

Amd are right to be going down that road and Intel are showing that by releasing a 6 core cpu, if their was little benefit then Intel wouldn't release it.

jabbz · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:18

I could get get a AMD next build, but I'm sure intel will bring something 10% better out for only twice the price.
Now I'm not a fanboy of the red or the blue, I just buy whats best at the time. But if Ryzen had been out when I got my 6600k
last june I would have got the 1600x instead. I have become angry with intel for ripping us off all the time and getting away with it.
Now AMD have stepped up, intel are not sitting on their hands like they have been. So now we can see what they can do for real
and give us more than a 10% each time. If they bring out a 6 core 12 thread that is about 4ghz and 4.5ghz boost (a little bit faster than the 6850k) for £800-900, then the 1800x
it will be for me, or even the 1700 overclocked for better value.

zornyan · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:20

jabbz said:
I could get get a AMD next build, but I'm sure intel will bring something 10% better out for only twice the price.
Now I'm not a fanboy of the red or the blue, I just buy whats best at the time. But if Ryzen had been out when I got my 6600k
last june I would have got the 1600x instead. I have become angry with intel for ripping us off all the time and getting away with it.
Now AMD have stepped up, intel are not sitting on their hands like they have been. So now we can see what they can do for real
and give us more than a 10% each time. If they bring out a 6 core 12 thread that is about 4ghz and 4.5ghz boost (a little bit faster than the 6850k) for £800-900, then the 1800x
it will be for me, or even the 1700 overclocked for better value.

that pricing is a little crazy.

their HEDT new 7800x 6/12 is around £340 and can clock to nearly 5ghz out of the box with. decent cooler, I highly doubt their going to charge more for a mainstream cpu than a HEDT that has more features etc

jabbz · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:33

Yes sorry I was thinking of the CPU and MB combi lol!

zornyan · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:40

jabbz said:
Yes sorry I was thinking of the CPU and MB combi lol!

if the prices are kept the same as current mainstream, then a mobo is what? £150-£250 depending on your flavour of rgb+plastic attachments, then £300-£340ish.

so it should cost around £550-600 depending on choice of motherboard

jabbz · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:46

I thought It would be like the same price as the 6850k (£450 then £350 for average MB).
Still £300-450 AMD R7 and £100 for a b350 MB is way better IMO as long as core optimizing continues to get better.
The extra 2 cores and 4 threads could help make it last longer.

TheF34RChannel · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:51

Chuk_Chuk said:
I disagree. AMD has sent out 300+ Ryzen developer kits and are planning to send out 1000+ by the end of the year. AMD lowest CPU has 4C/4T. People in this category are going to see one CPU with 4 cores and one with 2 and guess what they are going to pick.
IMO by the end of year, i think we will start to see more games using more cores.
I think we will see a shift in 1-2 years. In 3 years 8 core will be mainstream/normal. That's my prediction.

That sounds about right. I myself will opt for 6C with Coffee Lake-S and 8C with Tiger Lake-S.

GAC said:
iv said it before and il say it again, look at the steam survey and you will see the main issue. 44.8% of steam users have 2 cores, and 49.21% have 4. now not sure how much extra work it involves in making games use all cores but if it does cost more than a small amount of cash to the devs/publishers i can see this dragging on a while longer but it will change as devs have found out having them extra cores being used comes in handy to offload stuff to and at the very least help a game run smoother rather than balls to the wall fps numbers.

It better be ha ha, because these low end CPU usages in those numbers is appalling in my eyes.

gavinh87 said:
Completely out of the loop of coffeelake.
What are the chances of these working on Z270 boards in the future?

Absolutely none. We will see a LGA1151 v2 socket for this iteration.

Simon Belmont said:
I wonder how much better the 7820x or 7800x would be next to a 6 core coffeelake?

Depends on the tasks you'll be giving it. For rendering and stuff the X299 stuff is better, for gaming Coffee Lake-S is your poison of choice (large L3 cache and smaller L2 cache vs vice versa, of which the latter scenario is not beneficial for games).

zornyan · 30 Jun 2017 at 19:56

jabbz said:
I thought It would be like the same price as the 6850k (£450 then £350 for average MB).
Still £300-450 AMD R7 and £100 for a b350 MB is way better IMO as long as core optimizing continues to get better.
The extra 2 cores and 4 threads could help make it last longer.

the 6850k is a HEDT cpu, not mainstream (also you could get x99 motherboards for as low as £140)

right now you can get a 6 core skylake x 7800x for £340, and a x299 for £218, so £560 for cpu+mobo.

that's hedt, mainstream is always always cheaper than hedt.

chrcoluk · 1 Jul 2017 at 00:23

Most game developers I have seen comment on this issue say making a game multi threaded is much harder than it seems.

Of course what we know is that the consoles have weak jaguar cores so almost certainly games made for the consoles utilise multi threading, so in thoery PC ports should already have multi threading code in place, this then leaves exclusive PC games.

My personal experience is for whatever reason JRPG's tend to utilise 2 cores at most, but big western AAA games are nearly always able to utilise all cores.

muon · 1 Jul 2017 at 00:57

zornyan said:
because it is?

these engineering (not retail) samples are thermally limited, so it seems they're all capable of 5ghz as long as you have adequate cooling, I'm personally going for the 8 core so with 20% less heat should be much easier to cool.

gotta be willing to cool things if you want the best performance I guess

So you running the 7820X core at 5ghz yet?

TheF34RChannel · 1 Jul 2017 at 18:41

chrcoluk said:
Most game developers I have seen comment on this issue say making a game multi threaded is much harder than it seems.

Well tough but they're going to have to start doing it because we are getting dangerously close to the point where underutilized CPU cores/threads will bottleneck future GPUs (which performance increase per iteration is manifold more rapidly). I was thinking about this today, and them tonight coincidentally saw a video by PCPer with an Nvidia guy who said the same thing. For that matter, I wouldn't dare putting a Titan X(p) or maybe even a Ti with an i5 or below.