Is China on to something?

[Avenged7Fold]

It's win-win because it's clearly not inciting mass terror attacks against civilians and seemingly nobody is objecting to it.
Unless of course people do object to it and they're just keeping shtum for...reasons? And these attacks aren't msterialising for...reasons?

You clearly object to what China is doing therefore can I ask if you're boycotting Chinese products? If not then you're complicit so you can't really take the moral high-ground can you?

No oppression is win-win, saying that does not make me a hypocrite no matter where my products come from. Given your attitude, I should refuse to pay tax or purchase anything from UK companies because I don't agree on some foreign policy or something.

Do you currently boycott all products made in the east or manufactured by companies in the west with Chinese machinery/electronics?

You've posted some pretty nasty thing on China, yet anyone who disagrees with it or is outspoken against it should not take that view because you name them complicit. Do you want to troll or do you want a discussion, because it seems that you have chosen everyone's views for them and are ready to reply accusing them of supporting this oppression.

 

[Freakbro]

Given your attitude, I should refuse to pay tax or purchase anything from UK companies because I don't agree on some foreign policy or something.

Hey I have a friend who says exactly that. He's never going to work againbecause if you pay [Income] Tax then you are condoning the killing of children.

Ignoring the fact that he pays VAT and other indirect taxes, it's not going so well for him, he's split up his family, sold his house and is now living alone in the back of a converted van, but hey, that's what happens when you don't get help with your mental illness.

 

[Dis86]

No oppression is win-win, saying that does not make me a hypocrite no matter where my products come from. Given your attitude, I should refuse to pay tax or purchase anything from UK companies because I don't agree on some foreign policy or something.

Do you currently boycott all products made in the east or manufactured by companies in the west with Chinese machinery/electronics?

You've posted some pretty nasty thing on China, yet anyone who disagrees with it or is outspoken against it should not take that view because you name them complicit. Do you want to troll or do you want a discussion, because it seems that you have chosen everyone's views for them and are ready to reply accusing them of supporting this oppression.

That's a pretty contradictory post.

But to clarify if you are buying Chinese products, a choice, then you are supporting the Chinese regime committing these acts. So if you are choosing to buy them then you cannot take the moral high ground against anyone who supports the Chinese stance.
You were the one calling me abhorrent over the win-win statement yet seemingly don't like it when I point out your economic activities are supporting that situation.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I just disagree that you can't actively speak out against it even if a small portion of the money ends up with the regime. I think that attitude is dangerous and abhorrent.

I don't have to agree with your abhorrent moral view or your ridiculous mental gymnastics. Call it contradictory and call it hypocritical but i disagree.

 

[glenimp617]

There is a saying which is applicable to this thread

You can't have your cake and eat it

although it seems as if you can?

and a second one, in general

money makes the world go round

 

[Dis86]

I just disagree that you can't actively speak out against it even if a small portion of the money ends up with the regime. I think that attitude is dangerous and abhorrent.

I don't have to agree with your abhorrent moral view or your ridiculous mental gymnastics. Call it contradictory and call it hypocritical but i disagree.

What mental gymnastics are these? It's straight forward!

Oppression = bad.

Giving money to oppressors = bad.

What's confusing about that?

 

[danielanthony]

China justifies its crackdown on Xinjiang as protecting the peace and preventing terrorism. Militant Uighurs have been accused of starting deadly ethnic riots in Xinjiang and terrorist attacks across the country from 2009 to 2014.

Many Arab countries "exhibit a similar understanding" of prioritizing social stability over human rights, van Nieuwenhuizen said.

Thats how the rest of the world see things outside of our bubble of Western Democracy.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

That's a pretty contradictory post.

But to clarify if you are buying Chinese products, a choice, then you are supporting the Chinese regime committing these acts. So if you are choosing to buy them then you cannot take the moral high ground against anyone who supports the Chinese stance.
You were the one calling me abhorrent over the win-win statement yet seemingly don't like it when I point out your economic activities are supporting that situation.

Interesting assertion, let's test it.

I buy Chinese products, I oppose the stance of the Chinese government as laid out in the article linked in the OP. Yep, turns out I can buy Chinese goods and still not approve of the regime.

You could argue that I can't legitimately take that position, but you'd still be wrong, because purchasing cheap Chinese tat on occasion does not represent a tacit acceptance of everything any Chinese person, organisation, or regime does. I sign no contract at point of sale that says that by purchasing this Chinese made lamp I am signalling my support of the Chinese state, when it's delivered I don't get a CPC members card.

Now if you had said "You support the extermination of Muslims in Myanmar, therefore it's somewhat hypocritical to oppose the same situation in China", you'd be closer to the truth, however even there you'd need both circumstances to be extremely similar for your mental gymnastics to be relevant.

 

[Dis86]

Interesting assertion, let's test it.

I buy Chinese products, I oppose the stance of the Chinese government as laid out in the article linked in the OP. Yep, turns out I can buy Chinese goods and still not approve of the regime.

You could argue that I can't legitimately take that position, but you'd still be wrong, because purchasing cheap Chinese tat on occasion does not represent a tacit acceptance of everything any Chinese person, organisation, or regime does. I sign no contract at point of sale that says that by purchasing this Chinese made lamp I am signalling my support of the Chinese state, when it's delivered I don't get a CPC members card.

Now if you had said "You support the extermination of Muslims in Myanmar, therefore it's somewhat hypocritical to oppose the same situation in China", you'd be closer to the truth, however even there you'd need both circumstances to be extremely similar for your mental gymnastics to be relevant.

Just because you sign no contract doesn't mean you don't support something. By contributing towards the Chinese state you are contributing towards their actions. The blood, however tiny a speck it may be, is still on your hands.

 

[Bear]

Just because you sign no contract doesn't mean you don't support something. By contributing towards the Chinese state you are contributing towards their actions. The blood, however tiny a speck it may be, is still on your hands.

You're starting to sound like an extremist. Im pretty sure that is the type of thinking the Muslim extremists use to justify the killing of civilians in western countries.

 

[Dis86]

You're starting to sound like an extremist. Im pretty sure that is the type of thinking the Muslim extremists use to justify the killing of civilians in western countries.

Yet not the logic they use when it comes to China - see my point yet?

 

[Bear]

Yet not the logic they use when it comes to China - see my point yet?

I do see your point but Im not sure it is correct. Freakbro posted earlier that there are Muslim extremist attacks in China only Im guessing the state stops any of the news from coming out as they are very controlling of the media as everyone knows.

 

[Dis86]

I do see your point but Im not sure it is correct. Freakbro posted earlier that there are Muslim extremist attacks in China only Im guessing the state stops any of the news from coming out as they are very controlling of the media as everyone knows.

As I pointed out, yes there are attacks, but they're isolated individuals. Not the mass attacks that we've seen throughout Western Europe and tbh other Asian countries such as Pakistan and India. We all know that Pakistan is a special one as the government and army have been shown to be complicit as well.

More so my point is why aren't Muslim countries speaking out? Well...the article gives the answer. Yet when a Western country does something - however slight - we see protests, flag burnings, state criticism.

 

[Bear]

As I pointed out, yes there are attacks, but they're isolated individuals. Not the mass attacks that we've seen throughout Western Europe and tbh other Asian countries such as Pakistan and India. We all know that Pakistan is a special one as the government and army have been shown to be complicit as well.

More so my point is why aren't Muslim countries speaking out? Well...the article gives the answer. Yet when a Western country does something - however slight - we see protests, flag burnings, state criticism.

Genuine question, how do we really know there hasnt been any mass attacks? We dont know a great amount of what does or doesnt go on there as the media is state controlled. If we dont know then I dont suppose many Muslim countries are in the know either. China is very good at letting the world know about things they want to let you know about unless theres a leak. Of course as the article say money also talks.

 

[TacticalFish]

Just because you sign no contract doesn't mean you don't support something. By contributing towards the Chinese state you are contributing towards their actions. The blood, however tiny a speck it may be, is still on your hands.

So if when purchasing goods from China, you are contributing to the regime. But how do you know what the rest of your purchase is contributing to? The person you are buying the goods from may be actively working against oppression, in this case they could be secretly working to help Uyghurs. If this were the case, does your attempt at logic balance out the situation? 90% goes to the oppressors, 10% to the oppressor, surely the net effect is that you are fighting the oppression of the Chinese government?

By the same logic, if you buy British goods which funds the UK government, the UK government has shares in BAE, who sells arms to Saudi Arabia, who commit human rights offences. Therefore by buying British, you funding an oppressive government, with links to terror groups.

 

[Dis86]

Genuine question, how do we really know there hasnt been any mass attacks? We dont know a great amount of what does or doesnt go on there as the media is state controlled. If we dont know then I dont suppose many Muslim countries are in the know either. China is very good at letting the world know about things they want to let you know about unless theres a leak. Of course as the article say money also talks.

Because when someone so much as lets go of a pungent guff over here every terrorist group on the planet tries to claim it. It's what helps further their cause. We hear of none of that. Also Chinese tourism and emigration is much more widespread and again we're not hearing of attacks from these people.

 

[Freakbro]

There seems to be quite a few mass killings gone on since 2014, scroll down here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China

1 March 2014 Kunming, Yunnan Kunming station massacre An unidentified group of knife-wielding men and women attacked people at the Kunming Railway Station.

30 April 2014 Ürümqi, Xinjiang April 2014 Ürümqi attack A knife attack and bombing occurred in the Chinese city of Ürümqi, the capital of China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. The attack left three people dead and seventy-nine others injured.

22 May 2014 Ürümqi, Xinjiang May 2014 Ürümqi attack Two sport utility vehicles (SUVs) carrying five assailants were driven into a busy street market in Ürümqi. Up to a dozen explosives were thrown at shoppers from the windows of the SUVs. The SUVs crashed into shoppers then collided with each other and exploded. 43 people were killed, including 4 of the assailants, and more than 90 wounded.

28 November 2014 Xinjiang Militants with knives and explosives attacked civilians, 15 dead and 14 injured. 14 of the 15 deaths were attackers.[120]

6 March 2015 Guangzhou Three ethnic Uyghur assailants with long knives attacked civilians at Guangzhou train station, 13 injured.
[121][122]

24 June 2015 Xinjiang Group killed several police with knives and bombs at traffic checkpoint before 15 suspects died in armed response[123]

18 September 2015 Aksu, Xinjiang Sogan colliery attack An unidentified group of knife-wielding men attacked off-duty workers at a coalmine, killing 50, among them 5 police officers.[124]

29 December 2016 Xinjiang Islamic militants drove a vehicle into a yard at the county Communist party offices and set off a bomb but were all shot dead. Three people were wounded and one other died.[125]

Like we say, it's just not widely reported on our news, but there's 43 dead and 90 wounded in one incident alone up there

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Hmmm looks like that oppression isn't working...

Also those stories above look like they have been through a bit of Chinese media style editing before hitting the headline:

28 November 2014 Xinjiang Militants with knives and explosives attacked civilians, 15 dead and 14 injured. 14 of the 15 deaths were attackers.[120]

15 people killed and 14 of them were attackers?

That has got to be wrong unless there were a few crouching tigers, hidden dragons among the civilians..

 

[Dis86]

@Freakbro good summary. The thing is they're all ethnic Chinese. My point is they're not external attackers like a lot seem to be in the West.

 

[Amp34]

Well if we did do that nobody could complain since they're certainly not complaining about China doing it. Which is entirely my point.

We treat all of our citizens (relatively) well and yet live under a heavy threat of mass terrorist attack. We as in western Europe. We have taken in Muslim refugees from all over the world, many of whom have paid us back in blood and violence (see the current sweden thread as an example).
China treats some of its citizens worse than animals (don't even get me started on how some of its animals are treat) and yet they don't have mass attacks. Yes, as @Freakbro has pointed out individuals have been caught up or targetted overseas but generally in China itself they're more restricted to isolated stabbings.

The actions of China have been in the news on and off for at least a year that I can remember. Just because our government have double standards when it comes to action and talk about different countries doesn’t mean others aren’t speaking out about it (but generally means it’s less likely to make headline news).

In an ideal world politics wouldn’t come before reprimand and action, but it does.

Gross generalizations and collective punishment is not the way to go, no one should be emulating China in that regard.