Is China on to something?

[Dis86]

The actions of China have been in the news on and off for at least a year that I can remember. Just because our government have double standards when it comes to action and talk about different countries doesn’t mean others aren’t speaking out about it (but generally means it’s less likely to make headline news).

In an ideal world politics wouldn’t come before reprimand and action, but it does.

Gross generalizations and collective punishment is not the way to go, no one should be emulating China in that regard.

But it's not just our country and government. The main point is where are all these Islamic states rising up against them? Salman Rushdie has a fatwa against him for writing a book, these ******* are oppressing nigh on a million people in a brutal fashion aaaand - nada. Zip. Nothing.

 

[StriderX]

But it's not just our country and government. The main point is where are all these Islamic states rising up against them? Salman Rushdie has a fatwa against him for writing a book, these ******* are oppressing nigh on a million people in a brutal fashion aaaand - nada. Zip. Nothing.

Because the Chinese aren't being vocal about it? Like they usually aren't about anything?

Plus if the Saudi backed terror cells started agitating China, they'd find themselves with a permanent enemy (If they could, they'd flatten Japan, just saying) with a huge military.

 

[GGizmo]

When its a super power doing it then hardly anyone questions it.

I agree that the leaders of these Islamic middle eastern countries are fake. But then I guess we could say it of our leaders turning a blind eye to Christians being killed by Isis too.

 

[Nasher]

Never been any terrorist attacks in Poland either. Yet Poland is a NATO member and was in involved in Afghanistan etc (and still are). Why is that?

 

[Feef]

Genuine question, how do we really know there hasnt been any mass attacks? We dont know a great amount of what does or doesnt go on there as the media is state controlled.

Not wanting to look like I'm picking on you, as I think I broadly agree with what you're saying, but the Chinese media isn't all that great at regulating the flow of information out of the country. I have several friends working in the media in China, from websites like Sixthtone and Shanghaiist to papers like the South China Morning Post (which has sadly recently been hamstrung), as well as a few in travel and music magazines. Information within the country is tightly controlled, but VPNs continue to make that difficult. Last time I was there I just used Opera's built in service to circumvent it, it's not a huge challenge.

Point being, I don't think there's a large scale cover up of mass attacks - it's simply not feasible. Any incidents might not get reported internally, and there's certainly a lot they're doing out in the western "provinces" that I very much disagree with, but I don't think it's true to say that we don't know what's going on there.

My location alone should give away that I'm not any sort of fan of the CCP, but their methods of indoctrination and spreading propaganda are actually fairly transparent, as these things go.

 

[Bear]

Not wanting to look like I'm picking on you, as I think I broadly agree with what you're saying, but the Chinese media isn't all that great at regulating the flow of information out of the country. I have several friends working in the media in China, from websites like Sixthtone and Shanghaiist to papers like the South China Morning Post (which has sadly recently been hamstrung), as well as a few in travel and music magazines. Information within the country is tightly controlled, but VPNs continue to make that difficult. Last time I was there I just used Opera's built in service to circumvent it, it's not a huge challenge.

Point being, I don't think there's a large scale cover up of mass attacks - it's simply not feasible. Any incidents might not get reported internally, and there's certainly a lot they're doing out in the western "provinces" that I very much disagree with, but I don't think it's true to say that we don't know what's going on there.

My location alone should give away that I'm not any sort of fan of the CCP, but their methods of indoctrination and spreading propaganda are actually fairly transparent, as these things go.

Haha, I dont feel picked on at all It was a genuine question as I dont know how much we would get to hear from a country that is so tightly controlled, you're obviously better placed to know the ins and out of that sort of thing than many of us living in here.

 

[Amp34]

But it's not just our country and government. The main point is where are all these Islamic states rising up against them? Salman Rushdie has a fatwa against him for writing a book, these ******* are oppressing nigh on a million people in a brutal fashion aaaand - nada. Zip. Nothing.

Why should they any more than anyone else?

Do you think Christian countries should complain when Christians are being oppressed elsewhere specifically because they’re Christian?

You’re presumably making the logical fallacy that because these people are Muslim then the Islamic states somehow have a connection to them far greater than other states? Islam is a religion, not a homogenous group identity. The assumption of the latter is a problem we see day in day out.

In other news it seems (some of) your call has been answered though Dis, both the UN and some members of the US are now calling China out.

 

[Dis86]

Why should they any more than anyone else?

Do you think Christian countries should complain when Christians are being oppressed elsewhere specifically because they’re Christian?

You’re presumably making the logical fallacy that because these people are Muslim then the Islamic states somehow have a connection to them far greater than other states? Islam is a religion, not a homogenous group identity. The assumption of the latter is a problem we see day in day out.

In other news it seems (some of) your call has been answered though Dis, both the UN and some members of the US are now calling China out.

Why should they? They condemn the West for every attack that's carried out in an Islamic country.
When terrorists carry out attacks in the West the excuse is always because of the Wests and oppression of Muslims.
As we both know certain terrorist cells have state funding from various Islamic countries.

Take the recent removal of American contributions from UN aid to Palestine. It's been robustly condemned by many Islamic countries. China has the forced disappearance of thousands and they don't bat an eyelid.

 

[Amp34]

Why should they? They condemn the West for every attack that's carried out in an Islamic country.
When terrorists carry out attacks in the West the excuse is always because of the Wests and oppression of Muslims.
As we both know certain terrorist cells have state funding from various Islamic countries.

Every Islamic country, or countries situated next to them, in their region?

And which countries are we discussing specifically? Many Islamic countries have been allies in western actions in Islamic countries. Just because Iran condemns US actions in Iraq or Syria doesn’t mean all Islamic countries condemn all actions.

Each individual Muslim dominated country has its own policies and political agendas, just as each Christian dominated country does (and all countries in general).

If we’re discussing terrorist organizations then it’s a different matter entirely. Personally I don't read IS news releases so don’t know their policies on Chinese oppression of Muslims. Terrorist organizations aren’t exactly accurate spokespeople for people they claim to represent anyway. They use excuses to justify the actions they want to take.

 

[Dis86]

Every Islamic country, or countries situated next to them, in their region?

And which countries are we discussing specifically? Many Islamic countries have been allies in western actions in Islamic countries. Just because Iran condemns US actions in Iraq or Syria doesn’t mean all Islamic countries condemn all actions.

Each individual Muslim dominated country has its own policies and political agendas, just as each Christian dominated country does (and all countries in general).

If we’re discussing terrorist organizations then it’s a different matter entirely. Personally I don't read IS news releases so don’t know their policies on Chinese oppression of Muslims. Terrorist organizations aren’t exactly accurate spokespeople for people they claim to represent anyway. They use excuses to justify the actions they want to take.

Multiple inter-spaced states. Not just neighbours.

And you're right when you say all Islamic countries don't condemn all actions but there is a blistering lack of any condemnation towards China.

 

[Raz]

https://www.businessinsider.de/why-...zing-china-uighur-repression-2018-8?r=UK&IR=T

Interesting. I knew China was oppressing it's Muslim populations but not to this scale.

Interesting that they're facing no criticism from Islamic countries isn't it? It's almost like they're hypocritical states run by those only concerned with lining their own pockets...

Also can't help but question where all the mass terror attacks are in protest at this treatment or have China somehow found a solution to the problem? Perhaps we should try what they're doing over here in Europe? After all it seems to work and nobody is speaking out against it so win-win?

You do realise that it's not just religion that's used to justify Islamic terrorism? The political agenda has a huge part to playing what's happening, and people may have noticed a greater threat from AQ and other jihadi groups post 9/11 and the war on terrorism.

China has its threats, but given the apparent 'war on Islam' led by the US and it's allies they're probably not that high on a jihadi's list.

 

[Tefal]

Never been any terrorist attacks in Poland either. Yet Poland is a NATO member and was in involved in Afghanistan etc (and still are). Why is that?

They don't let any in. Islamic population is way less than 1% vs 5% uk and >6% in france

 

[Tefal]

But it's not just our country and government. The main point is where are all these Islamic states rising up against them? Salman Rushdie has a fatwa against him for writing a book, these ******* are oppressing nigh on a million people in a brutal fashion aaaand - nada. Zip. Nothing.

Same reason how if you see a skinny unarmed man trying to beat a child to death in the street you are likley to intervene.

Yet when our govenrment or another orders an airstrike that will kill dozens you don't try to storm the houses of parliament and stop them.

The power of the other party makes a major impact in how they are responded to

 

[diamount]

Same reason how if you see a skinny unarmed man trying to beat a child to death in the street you are likley to intervene.

Yet when our govenrment or another orders an airstrike that will kill dozens you don't try to storm the houses of parliament and stop them.

The power of the other party makes a major impact in how they are responded to

Because of apathy, car bombs, suicide attacks, airstrikes are a daily occurrence in the middle east yet such news are reported on regional news sections and never generally hits the telly unless the death toll is in the hundreds.

 

[Tefal]

Because of apathy, car bombs, suicide attacks, airstrikes are a daily occurrence in the middle east yet such news are reported on regional news sections and never generally hits the telly unless the death toll is in the hundreds.

Trump moves an embassy, or bans travel or some redneck burns a koran and everyone loses thier **** though

 

[Amp34]

Multiple inter-spaced states. Not just neighbours.

And you're right when you say all Islamic countries don't condemn all actions but there is a blistering lack of any condemnation towards China.

They probably don't care, but equally they also know what side their bread is buttered. Don't **** of a vital (future?) superpower that has a significant investment in the region, especially for a bunch of people you don't care about.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/28/chinas-latest-conquest-middle-east-power-broker---commentary.html

 

[Amp34]

They don't let any in. Islamic population is way less than 1% vs 5% uk and >6% in france

Why is that I wonder? Probably largely because Poland wasn't a colonial power with significant influence and power over islamic nations. Most of the Muslims in France are from North Africa*, which were colonies of France up until quite recently. Most of the Muslims in the UK are from ex colonies. We "let them in" because we have strong links with the aforementioned countries, Poland doesn't.

*Almost 3 million of the 4 million muslims in France originate from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. Over half of British muslims originate from Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

[StriderX]

Why is that I wonder? Probably largely because Poland wasn't a colonial power with significant influence and power over islamic nations. Most of the Muslims in France are from North Africa*, which were colonies of France up until quite recently. Most of the Muslims in the UK are from ex colonies. We "let them in" because we have strong links with the aforementioned countries, Poland doesn't.

*Almost 3 million of the 4 million muslims in France originate from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. Over half of British muslims originate from Bangladesh and Pakistan.

Plus Poland isn't exactly "wealthy" is it...

 

[Tefal]

Why is that I wonder? Probably largely because Poland wasn't a colonial power with significant influence and power over islamic nations. Most of the Muslims in France are from North Africa*, which were colonies of France up until quite recently. Most of the Muslims in the UK are from ex colonies. We "let them in" because we have strong links with the aforementioned countries, Poland doesn't.

*Almost 3 million of the 4 million muslims in France originate from Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. Over half of British muslims originate from Bangladesh and Pakistan.

Ok cool.

Doesn't really change anything though does it?

I mean it's an interesting explanation for why thiet numbers are so low but it doesn't change the outcome? So I'm not sure what you're tryinf to get at.

France and the UK deserve terrorist attacks because of thier colonial history?

 

[Skunkworks]

France and the UK deserve terrorist attacks because of thier colonial history?

Colonialism!
Foreign policy!
Islamophobia!
Brexit!
Boris’ article!

The one thing it’s definitely not is Islam. Nope, no siree, deffo not that. Move along, nothing to see here!

Meanwhile from the horse’s mouth:

The ISIS author of the “Why We Hate You” piece aims to settle the argument, and “clarify” in “unequivocal terms” that ISIS is Islamic. The author says that those on the “social fringe” who identify Islam with ISIS are correct.

“There are exceptions among the disbelievers, no doubt, people who will unabashedly declare that jihad and the laws of the Shari’ah – as well as everything else deemed taboo by the Islam-is-a-peaceful-religion crowd – are in fact completely Islamic, but they tend to be people with far less credibility who are painted as a social fringe, so their voices are dismissed and a large segment of the ignorant masses continues believing the false narrative,” the article says.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/01/isis-details-why-hate-in-new-magazine.html