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Is it ok to be proud to be white?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rubberduck, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,382

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    It's not weird, sadly. All ideologies of irrational prejudice work the same way, treating the same things as opposites depending on which group identity they assign to the people doing them. To a pro-white racist, white pride is positive and black pride is negative. To a pro-black racist, black pride is positive and white pride is negative. To a pro-male sexist, male pride is postive and female pride is negative. To a pro-female sexist, female pride is positive and male pride is negative. Etc, etc, ad nauseam.

    The only significant difference with modern fashionable irrational prejudice is that it's more politically skilled and so it seeks to destroy the concepts it opposes by corrupting them rather than by opposing them honestly. As a result of the tactic, it's had a lot more success than honest irrational prejudice. Concepts such as equality, tolerance, diversity and liberalism have been almost completely corrupted and destroyed by feminism and the "progressive" left and now mean pretty much the opposite of their true meaning. It's downright Orwellian - Minitru would be proud of that doubleplusgood blackwhite Newspeak. It greatly helps those bigots promote the irrational prejudice and discrimination they love so much. It gives them a false impression of wider support. It gives them a pretence of a moral high ground from which they can attack people in favour of actual equality, etc, and lie about them. It robs people in favour of actual equality, etc, of the words to express their views or even to think about them since we think in words. It's a politically brilliant move. Ethically disgusting and vile, but politically brilliant. They've even succeeding in having irrational prejudice and discrimination labelled as "progressive" when in fact it's obviously extremely regressive. They're like a virus, infecting a cell and corrupting it into a factory to manufacture more of the virus while using it to hide from the host's immune system. They are the Ebola of equality, tolerance, diversity, liberalism, progress and pretty much everything good.
     
  2. James_Duncan_Smith

    Associate

    Joined: Apr 7, 2019

    Posts: 41

    What about people who are not low skilled? Or are you trying to imply only low ranks vote for such things?
     
  3. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    No it's not the same, why are you 'skillfully' avoiding the elephant in the room? Write pride is a well known hate slogan, closely associated to nazis. Black/Gay/etc. pride are not.

    Can you provide some examples of these Orwellian, regressive views you speak speak of?

    They are more likely to vote for such things, on average.
     
  4. malachi

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 27, 2006

    Posts: 10,016

    Location: Earth

    Not from my experience!
     
  5. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,474

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    Saudi Arabia, Qatar, wealthy Arabs and Sunni Muslim Berbers in Libya...
     
  6. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 25, 2011

    Posts: 5,474

    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    This pretty much sums it up. Racial pride is a natural reaction to being attacked for one's race. Whether that be Black, White, whatever. Currently there's a lot of negativity directed at White people in academia, the media, whatever. That aids White Supremacists who use it to push a narrative of racial supremacy. But frankly, such people are a near powerless fringe. One can be proud of one's heritage without being against others who do not share it, I think. My views are well-known on this forum: I'll take a person of any colour who shares my values over a person who shares my skin colour but opposes them. I believe the majority here would agree, whichever side of the debate they're on. I could probably get even our resident Chris Wilson to agree with that.
     
  7. h4rm0ny

    Soldato

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    Location: Yorkshire and proud of it!

    I call it statistical noise and say that undue attention on the idea of it increases racial tension and prejudice. And I'm very confidant in that.
     
  8. Efour

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 8, 2005

    Posts: 25,804

    Location: Norrbotten, Sweden.

    White privilege exists in Europe the same way Black or Yellow, for the use of a better adjective, privilege exists in Africa or Asia.
    Blending in, being part of the biggest group is always an advantage. Its basic animal existence. Its safety in numbers, flocks, and shoals.
    When you push it with an agenda and political goals it becomes problematic.
     
  9. Angilion

    Man of Honour

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    It has always been the case that the same irrational prejudice is fashionable when directed against some groups and unfashionable when directed against others. There is no elephant in the room, only the age old pretence that the same thing is different when the "right" group identity does it. It isn't.

    Anything labelled "progressive". Of course, whether irrational prejudice and discrimination is considered progressive or regressive depends solely on whether or not a person agrees with it.

    One example at random:

    Further back in the past, it was legal to prevent a person from becoming an MP solely on the basis that they were the "wrong" sex.
    The law was then changed to make it illegal to do so.
    The law was the changed to make it legal again.

    That change, partially disenfranchising people solely because of their sex, is labelled "equality", "diversity", "liberal" and suchlike. Straight out of Minitru from 1984, i.e. Orwellian in that way. I consider an increase in sexism to be regressive. People who like sexism consider it to be progressive.

    The general increase in the power of biological group identity ideology. Same as above.

    There has also been a sharp decrease in tolerance, with increasing force (both social and legal) being used to suppress dissent. That increase in authoritarianism and compelled obedience isn't at 1984 levels yet, but it's heading in that direction. Somewhat Orwellian in that way, but I was referred explicitly to the use of language when I described the ideology as "Orwellian". .
     
  10. jonneymendoza

    Capodecina

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    Posts: 16,285

    why?

    does it matter? you should be proud of tour personality, not the colour of your skin!!
     
  11. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    Are you even aware of the pathetic mental gymnastics you are trying to pull here? "White pride" is a hate slogan, "X pride" are not hate slogans, that's all there is to it.

    More mental gymnastics. What law prevents anyone from becoming MP? If you're talking about gender quotas, such a law would not prevent anyone from being a candidate and winning. It would only make it so men can compete for 50% of the chairs, you still have to beat the other candidates, nothing changes from the perspective of a single candidate. Quotas wouldn't be sexist, there wouldn't be an advantage for any sex. Besides, MPs don't become MPs by going through a meritocratic procress, they do so by being born in the right family with the right connections and/or circumstances, right education or just blind luck. It's essentially random, the ones at the top are no more deserving than others so further randomizing things through 50-50 quotas would change absolutely nothing.

    Progressives are not authoritarian, they are left-Libertarians for the most part, you don't know the basics of the concepts you're trying to tackle so your labels (Orwellian) and conclusions are without substance, they are meaningless.
     
  12. Angilion

    Man of Honour

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    Physician, heal thyself!

    You're claiming that the same thing is different depending solely on which biological group identity you assign to the person doing it. That mental gymnastics is of course a required part of irrational prejudice. Everyone who supports irrational prejudice does it. Presumably some of them really do believe that the same thing is different depending on where in their hierarchy they put the biological group identity of the person doing it.

    You believe in judging people on the colour of their skin and not the content of their character. You're not going to understand and acknowledge any different view, so all you can do is continue to protest that the same thing is different when the "right" biological group identity does it. I don't even believe in biological group identity - it's a delusion that serves only to promote irrational prejudice. There's no way I'm going to delude myself enough to fit into your views or pretend to.

    Only if you accept their corruption of language. I don't. So I don't think that irrational prejudice is equality, I don't think that discrimination is a good thing, I don't think that authoritarianism is liberal or libertarian, I don't think that biological group identity, stereotyping and imposed compliance is diversity and tolerance, etc, etc.

    I don't agree with your irrational prejudice and corruption of language.

    I advocate what used to be called equality, diversity, tolerance, liberalism and suchlike. People like you have corrupted those words to mean the opposite of themselves, so that's why you claim my position is meaningless. Part of the point of corrupting those words was and is to suppress expression of those concepts. It's a good idea if a person wants to promote biological group identity, biological group advocacy, irrational prejudice and discrimination based on sex, "race" and whatever other trivial and usually irrelevant biological traits they decide are important, stereotyping and thus pressure to conform to those stereotypes in the name of group identity and, of course, intolerance of dissent.
     
  13. billysielu

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    How is this thread still going. Must be bots...
     
  14. Zethor

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    I think you're a bit confused, I haven't expressed an opinion, I stated a fact: 'White Pride' has been a nazi slogan for a long time. And facts don't require your acceptance.

    No amount of rhetorical masturbation can change the fact that you refuse to engage my argument. Stop trying to control the conversation and stick to point, I've repeated it 3 times already.

    Perhaps you should start another thread this one is about whether a nazi slogan is ok or not.
     
  15. Angilion

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    I have addressed your "point" repeatedly. It's not a point. It's just the age old "the same thing is different when the right kind of people do it" thing. Par for the course for irrational prejudice, whatever the chosen group(s) and target group(s). You are demanding that I accept that belief as the truth. That will not happen no matter how many times you repeated it. I am arguing against your position - why on earth would I agree with your position just so that you will acknowledge that I have "engaged" it?
     
  16. cheesyboy

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    It's no use bringing the 'real world' to Angilion, he/she operates in a clean slate-world, where no history, even yesterday, ever happened. That his/her arguments always end up pleasing the forum racists, xenophobes, homophobes etc is surely only coincidence.
     
  17. No1newts

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 24, 2009

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    Location: North East

    I don't know much about @Angilion posting history but on this point he is correct. It's an absurd contradiction in the extremes of the libertarian ideology that they attempt to promote equality by use of discrimination and they either cannot see this fact or wilfully choose to ignore it to suit their agenda.

    They need to either be honest and admit they are not chasing equality (as @Angilion notes they have either purposefully attempted to redefine equality or are blind to it) and are in fact as bigoted as those they fight against or they can of course continue their absurdity but what you are seeing in reduced tolerance, racism and outright hostility against minorities is an upshot of people recognising they are being unfairly attacked. Of course there are economic factors to consider as well but why didn't you see this push back in the 90/00's? Because the extreme end of the tail at that point wasn't wagging the dog.

    The far right and the far left in both politics and morality are much better bed buddies then either wants to acknowledge. They come at it from slightly different angles but both are completely and utterly intolerant of any form of dissent and will attack those who disagree to shut them down.
     
  18. KizZ

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 18, 2005

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    Location: Lincoln

    Being proud of your race? Maybe.
    But you can definitely be proud of your heritage, ancestors and their achievements. One night I was thinking in my bed before sleeping how much Western Europeans have contributed to science, technology, engineering etc. and it's mind-blowing! I read a statistic somewhere that from 800 BC to 1950 AD, 97% of the world’s scientific advancements occurred in Europe and North America. I'm not even western European myself.

    Sam Hyde did a brilliant skit on this :D

     
  19. Efour

    Caporegime

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    Location: Norrbotten, Sweden.

    KizZ massive racist
     
  20. Zethor

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2013

    Posts: 4,294

    My point is that "white pride" is a nazi slogan so it is not ok. If you argue against that then either you don't believe it is a nazi slogan, in which case you are deluded, or you believe nazi slogans are ok. Which one is it? Do you also support the use of the swastika? It is just an old Indian symbol, right?

    What is it with you people? Are you so far down the rabbit hole that you cannot admit something as simple as "nazis, their symbolism and slogans are bad"? Your attempt to twist the conversation is pathetic, just like Angilion's.