Is it ok to be proud to be white?

FBi7 said:
You're allowed to be proud of whatever you are, as long as it's not straight, white, British and/or male.
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I think you are.

I also think that although a lot of people are proud to be straight white british males, we are proud about it quietly. In the same way lots of people are quietly proud of what they are, regardless of race, religion, sexuality, etc.

Obnoxiously proud straight white males are aggravating in the same way obnoxiously proud lesbians, muslims, gays, transgender people, and vegans are.

Obnoxious.

I'm proud not because I'm a straight white british male, but because I'm myself. I'm the only thing I've ever been, and why shouldn't I be proud of it?

Everyone should be proud of what they are - it's just that so many people, and its worse these days for a multitude of reasons, struggle to be proud of being anything without being abrasive, confrontrational and forceful about it.

This is not a white problem. This is a people problem.


Edit: the TLDR to this post is basically, I don't understand why people have to be a militant anything. I can be proud of being me as much as anyone can be proud of being anything. It doesn't need to be at anyone's expense. There's plenty of pride to go around. Pride of yourself and hate of others don't need to go together.
 
Caracus2k said:
Well at least you acknowledged that it may only be a perception of adversity.......

Because in modern western society that's mostly/all it is in a lot of cases.

Am I saying that there are no adversities non 'white' people face in western countries on account of racism? Nope...

But there area myriad of adversities out there affecting different people in extremely different ways.........

A 'black' child bought up in London may well have less adversities to face if they are to attain a certain level of success then say a white child born into a de industrialised area of the north in a sink estate. A 'black' American child born in California, USA may be in a similar position to a 'white' American child born into a rust belt town.....

Unfortunately a whole industry has been established around the (false) premise that being 'white' or a 'visible ethnic minority' confers some sort of universal and all overriding systemic privilege or oppression (respectively speaking).

Of course the very use of 'visible ethnic minority' in the UK is the use of a rather disingenuous term as, in its typical usage, its really just a synonym for 'black' but with the attempt to rope in all people into the 'oppressed ' class who are not 'white' so that the 'white' people can be cast as the oppressor class whilst we ignore that some of those people in the 'visible ethic minority' camp often outperform 'white' people in a range of metrics which undermines the whole 'white privilege' claim!


Prison population
The proportion of the prison population varied greatly between ethnic groups: there were around 16 prisoners for every 10,000 people in England and Wales, similar to the White and Asian rates, but this includes only 5 prisoners for each 10,000 Chinese or Other population members, and 47 and 58 prisoners for each 10,000 Mixed and Black population members respectively.

Unfortunately this race baiting industry perpetuates racism as people who are unable to see past it attribute most /all differentials in outcomes as being the result of systemic oppression rather then looking for the potentially more complex, potentially true explanations.

The same goes for the vast majority of what constitutes modern 'feminism'.........

Its just a sex/gender baiting operation in this case substituting 'white' for male and 'visible ethnic minority' for female........

For this reason I would say that 'black pride' (or insert other non 'white' ethnicity pride) is at least as stupid as 'white pride' and probably a good deal more insidious in its nature to boot........
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TBH I wrote perception because I cannot be arsed to argue about whether its true or not, because it's irrelevant to the post I made. :p

But yes you're quite right in some ways, it's why some are "proud" to be from a working class family, or proud to be from a certain "downtrodden" location, or some other factor that isn't ethnicity. Many people are proud of what they've achieved after being from what they believe is a disadvantaged group.
 
heeeed said:
I generally think of proud to be black/Asian/LGBTQ etc as being more of an affirmation that they aren’t ashamed to be these categories. [..]
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Why do you generally think it means something completely different to what it means? Your interpretation relies on the assumption that the only two possibilities are pride or shame and that's obviously a false assumption.

No, it's worse than that. You think it means what it means if used by a "wrong" group identity and something completely different to what it means when used by a "right" group identity. That's irrational prejudice using an obviously false assumption as a pretence of rationalisation.
 
Angilion said:
Why do you generally think it means something completely different to what it means? Your interpretation relies on the assumption that the only two possibilities are pride or shame and that's obviously a false assumption.

No, it's worse than that. You think it means what it means if used by a "wrong" group identity and something completely different to what it means when used by a "right" group identity. That's irrational prejudice using an obviously false assumption as a pretence of rationalisation.
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I'm not sure if this was a high brow joke, but to me it's obvious that heeeed meant 'being proud' was a statement of survival against adversity.
 
Efour said:
no it was probably an exhibition of military skills and readiness for war, to avoid war.
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I think it was some of both, depending on how far you go back. I think it was originally more of the exhibition of military skills to avoid war by having a usually non-fatal contest instead but the celebration of health and fitness aspect became a bigger factor over time (still the ancient Olympics, but a bit later). Also, more than anything else, it was a celebration of winning. The ancient Olympics had winners who were lauded and losers who didn't matter. No silver and bronze there.
 
Nitefly said:
I'm not sure if this was a high brow joke, but to me it's obvious that heeeed meant 'being proud' was a statement of survival against adversity.
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It's obvious to me that being proud of having the "right" biological group identity is not a statement of survival against adversity. It's also obvious to me that treating the same behaviour extremely different depending on whether the person doing it has a "right" group identity or a "wrong" group identity is wrong.

Just be make it clear: I see nothing funny about irrational prejudice and hypocrisy, no matter how fashionable a flavour of it is.
 
cheesyboy said:
In a world where your experience is not coloured by your.... colour.... then it doesn't make sense. But what if you are treated negatively because of your colour?

Black Pride (see also Gay Pride etc) is a counter balance to that
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Irrational prejudice very often breeds irrational prejudice. That doesn't justify irrational prejudice. Not even when the "they did it first!" excuse is used as well. It's not a balance. It's more of the same. Also, of course, it causes more irrational prejudice because some of the targets will react the same way - irrational prejudice often breeds irrational prejudice.

I'd put all the biological group pride people on an island and hope they killed each other so more civilised people can have a better chance of making a better society.
 
I think black pride is perhaps a reaction to the way black people have been treated in the past in the west and especially in America. There is also the aspect of slavery there in that "African Americans" perhaps don't know where in Africa they come from, what their cultural origins are and therefore express a pride in their blackness, treat their whole group of "African Americans" as one big cultural group to take pride in etc..

Whereas white pride is usually synonymous with racism, lots of white people are proud of being say Irish or English etc..etc. but when it becomes just proud of being 'white' then it perhaps isn't quite the same as being proud of being 'black' when that black pride is used simply in lieu of being able to be proud of a specific culture.

Though frankly, to echo earlier comments, being proud of something you didn't actually do anything to achieve is a bit odd. I suppose you can be proud of your ancestors but the thought of say some sun reading council estate dweller taking 'pride' in say the days of the empire while ranting about immigrants etc.. is all a bit silly.
 
Angilion said:
It's obvious to me that being proud of having the "right" biological group identity is not a statement of survival against adversity. It's also obvious to me that treating the same behaviour extremely different depending on whether the person doing it has a "right" group identity or a "wrong" group identity is wrong.
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I think it can be read different ways as is clear by the way a debate exists and my seeing white pride in a different light, but I still stand by my assertion that I more frequently see it as a positive affirmative statement against adversity. Of course I have seen it used differently, but less frequently so and I therefore don’t have the negative perception of it you do
 
dowie said:
Though frankly, to echo earlier comments, being proud of something you didn't actually do anything to achieve is a bit odd. I suppose you can be proud of your ancestors but the thought of say some sun reading council estate dweller taking 'pride' in say the days of the empire while ranting about immigrants etc.. is all a bit silly.
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I know i mentioned it earlier but.. i agree with what you say. So why so so many people het sucked into an emotional rollercoaster when waghcjng their country play in a world cup? It’s been buggig me for years, i mean i do like football. But i am not really fussed if England do well or not in tournaments because its not something i have any control over.
 
Bassmansam said:
I know i mentioned it earlier but.. i agree with what you say. So why so so many people het sucked into an emotional rollercoaster when waghcjng their country play in a world cup? It’s been buggig me for years, i mean i do like football. But i am not really fussed if England do well or not in tournaments because its not something i have any control over.
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Are you asking why people watch and support teams in a competition? Surely that's not hard to understand?
 
The west seems to really bought into the identity politics of the far left, where the white male sits atop of their oppression pyramid.

People think euros have had it easier than the other races but nothing could be further from the truth.
 
How can you be proud to be something you can't change or had no decision over? It's like saying I'm proud to have a strong bladder or something, no?

To me being proud of something means I've done something or achieved something
 
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