Is it time to sack Wenger?

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Inter were completely awful under Jose, anti football and left them in a state, Chelsea were a super attacking team before he joined and he slowly turned them into a boring defensive side also. Real can't defend for crap, attack well but in a league that few teams really focus on defending. Real are still very very one dimensional in the way they attack and when only 1 maybe 2 players aren't having a good game the team becomes pretty awful pretty quickly.

But that was Real's style before he joined, in his first season he actually got 4 points less and won 2 games less than Real did the year before. They were already a very good team when he took over and they've spent a LOT on a few very good players since then(and even more on some crap ones :p ).

The only real difference is Real fans/owners simply won't let him get away with turning the team more defensive(nor do they have the players to make that work well anyway), he tried it in every big game in his first season, and Real got thrashed worse than they have done for years without Mourinho.

He was bought in to beat Barca, nothing more or less, he did worse against them last year and they were pretty crap in Europe last year as well so really his first year was almost a failure. Talk of him being gone in the summer pretty much amounted to how he dealt with the Barca games, defensive tactics that backfired and they got a whooping, he probably would have been fired had it almost certainly not been ridiculously expensive to fire him.

This year, marginally improved, 4 points better off(which only puts them back where they were before Mourinho joined) and thats with 3 fit inform strikers vs last season with Benzema crap, Higuain injured and "that spikey haired dude whose name I can't remember/spell" out on loan. Those three had what 15 goals between them at the same point last year, maybe a few more, and closer to 35-40 at a guess this year.
 
I'm happy with guaranteed European qualification, a decent title challenge and maybe a run in the FA/Carling Cup each year. I don't expect us to win any of those competitions, but I expect is for us to be in amongst the front runners, challenging. Unfortunately Wenger doesn't seem to be able to provide that for us anymore, I don't know the exact point where it all went wrong, but as many have already said he seems to be very much his own man, and is one of the most stubborn managers in Europe. His inability to admit mistakes, and admit that faith in certain players has been ill-placed has really cost us over the past handful of seasons.

DM is absolutely on the money when he says that Wenger has considerably worsened the team year on year and this is what it has come to.
 
jonneymendoza said:
You really think most arsenal fans are happy not to win trophies?
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I think most fans recognise the good Wenger has done for the club over the years and realise what the future could be if he's not there anymore

Given the money available to City and Chelsea and the fact that we're not going anywhere any time soon I think it's unrealistic to expect Arsenal to be challenging. As the PL stands Champions League qualification ahead of the likes of Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a massive achievement and given the right investment in the summer Wenger could have you challenging for the title when in truth you probably shouldn't be.
 
Tom84 said:
I think most fans recognise the good Wenger has done for the club over the years and realise what the future could be if he's not there anymore

Given the money available to City and Chelsea and the fact that we're not going anywhere any time soon I think it's unrealistic to expect Arsenal to be challenging. As the PL stands Champions League qualification ahead of the likes of Liverpool, Spurs & Chelsea is a massive achievement and given the right investment in the summer Wenger could have you challenging for the title when in truth you probably shouldn't be.
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In my opinion, it's not solely on the players he's bought and brought through the youth system, it's the way he utilises them. Why he persists with a single striker formation, I will never understand. It's clear, when RVP isn't playing well or is injured we really struggle to hit the back of the net. Partly because we don't have any other top quality strikers, but more likely because van Persie is expected to play every single game, and when he's unable to we find ourselves relying on an unift, out of form striker who then gets criticised by the fans for being rubbish when it isn't the players fault.

That's just one example of his stubborn nature and willingness to stick with something even when it blatantly doesn't work. Wenger putting an additional striker on the field when thing's aren't going well is simply another indication that even he doesn't have faith in the system. Why not start with two strikers and if we're up by enough goals THEN take a striker off and put an extra midfielder/defender on.
 
Indeed, in the end a lot of clubs now focus around one main scorer. it doesn't mean if they went you'd be fighting for relegation, because shock horror another striker would be playing instead.
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
Why he persists with a single striker formation, I will never understand. It's clear, when RVP isn't playing well or is injured we really struggle to hit the back of the net. Partly because we don't have any other top quality strikers, but more likely because van Persie is expected to play every single game, and when he's unable to we find ourselves relying on an unift, out of form striker who then gets criticised by the fans for being rubbish when it isn't the players fault.

That's just one example of his stubborn nature and willingness to stick with something even when it blatantly doesn't work. Wenger putting an additional striker on the field when thing's aren't going well is simply another indication that even he doesn't have faith in the system. Why not start with two strikers and if we're up by enough goals THEN take a striker off and put an extra midfielder/defender on.
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It's hard to know why any manager sticks with the formation that they do, why does Jose only ever play 4-3-3? Why does Fergie favour 4-4-2 (a formation many feel is dead at the highest level). Personally I can see why Wenger has gone with the formation he has when you see the success it brings the likes of Barcelona but I think the problem Wenger has is the players he has are simply too hit or miss (Gervinho, Walcott & Arshavin especially). I guess the buck stops at Wenger in those terms though as it was his decision to bring these players to the club.

K1LLSW1TCH said:
Take Ronaldo's goals away from Real Madrid, take Messi's goals away from Barcelona...
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Exactly! Albeit I'm not sure they'd struggle as much as Arsenal would :p
 
Given the trends of previous summers, I can't see Wenger buying anyone decent. For one, anyone great who is available will be bought by a bigger club with more money, and two, players like Hazard are acutely aware the team is going downhill and are talking about going to other Prem teams instead. Everyone can see the way the team is headed, and it's not up. Thirdly, the amount of surgery needed... it would be a titanic job to actually sell all the dross, buy half a new team and not breach FFP rules or spend a lot of money, and Wenger doesn't seem to think anything is wrong with them anyway. How can you give someone as bad as Djourou a new contract?

The only reason I'd look to get a transfer to Arsenal if I was a professional footballer right now, is because I was youngish and wanting to make a name for myself so one of the huge rich clubs would come calling for me, as I know under Wenger I'd probably get given game time. Saying that, I'd be wary that I'd be played out of position and end up struggling for form, which is a hallmark of Wengers over the last few years.

Will RVP will be sold for a high, but not insane price this summer? Probably, as otherwise he'll go for free the year after and they wouldn't let that happen (who's going to score goals then?!). Then, like with Fabregas and Nasri, all that money will disappear, Arsene will buy some young striker nobodies really heard of for a modest fee. Normal service for a selling club will resume.

I really fear the longer Wenger stays, the worse the rot will get, and we'll be back where we were in the dark days of the mid 70s and early 80s, except the fans will still be paying ridiculous ticket prices to see a mediocre team playing mediocre football in a 60k capacity stadium - and then what happens when all those corporate boxes and seats get left empty, a large number of fairweather home fans start not turning up? It's not a happy thought.
 
I'd put money on RVP signing another contract at Arsenal tbh. I may be wrong but he seems the loyal type and AFAIK doesn't have Barca DNA :p
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
Take Ronaldo's goals away from Real Madrid, take Messi's goals away from Barcelona...
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Real Madrid

Ronaldo - 33
Benzema - 18
Higuain - 17

Barcelona

Messi - 33
Fabregas - 13
Sanchez - 11
Villa - 8 (out for most of the season with broken leg)
Xavi - 7


The gap is nowhere as big at those clubs and other players as you can see score many more goals than Arteta and Walcott do, Arsenal's 2nd and 3rd top scorer's.

Barcelona especially, literally anyone in their team can score apart from Abidal, Busquets and the GK in the starting 11.
 
Tom84 said:
I'd put money on RVP signing another contract at Arsenal tbh. I may be wrong but he seems the loyal type and AFAIK doesn't have Barca DNA :p
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We'll wait and see. There will be bids for him from the usual suspects. Fabregas, thankfully, hasn't started Tweeting him saying he should come and play in blue and burgundy with him...yet. RVP is obviously loved here and he knows that, but when you're the only world class player in your team (I'm excluding Wilshere because he basically hasn't played this season and is still far from the finished article), and have to suffer seeing a load of waterboys put in turgid, passionless performances with alarming frequency, then you'd probably be be asking the manager 'wtf' and looking at your options.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Real Madrid

Ronaldo - 33
Benzema - 18
Higuain - 17

Barcelona

Messi - 33
Fabregas - 13
Sanchez - 11
Villa - 8 (out for most of the season with broken leg)
Xavi - 7


The gap is nowhere as big at those clubs and other players as you can see score many more goals than Arteta and Walcott do, Arsenal's 2nd and 3rd top scorer's.

Barcelona especially, literally anyone in their team can score apart from Abidal, Busquets and the GK in the starting 11.
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Those teams obviously both have tremendous strength in depth though, the point still stands if you look at the majority of teams their attack has a line leader. My issue is that Wenger expects a player as injury prone as van Persie to be fit and firing 100% of the time, it's ridiculous.
 
Tom84 said:
I'd put money on RVP signing another contract at Arsenal tbh. I may be wrong but he seems the loyal type and AFAIK doesn't have Barca DNA :p
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Can see him going to Real personally...can't see him staying with another year of failure and nothing to look forward to at Arsenal on the horizon.
 
Somnambulist said:
Given the trends of previous summers, I can't see Wenger buying anyone decent. For one, anyone great who is available will be bought by a bigger club with more money, and two, players like Hazard are acutely aware the team is going downhill and are talking about going to other Prem teams instead. Everyone can see the way the team is headed, and it's not up. Thirdly, the amount of surgery needed... it would be a titanic job to actually sell all the dross, buy half a new team and not breach FFP rules or spend a lot of money, and Wenger doesn't seem to think anything is wrong with them anyway. How can you give someone as bad as Djourou a new contract?

The only reason I'd look to get a transfer to Arsenal if I was a professional footballer right now, is because I was youngish and wanting to make a name for myself so one of the huge rich clubs would come calling for me, as I know under Wenger I'd probably get given game time. Saying that, I'd be wary that I'd be played out of position and end up struggling for form, which is a hallmark of Wengers over the last few years.

Will RVP will be sold for a high, but not insane price this summer? Probably, as otherwise he'll go for free the year after and they wouldn't let that happen (who's going to score goals then?!). Then, like with Fabregas and Nasri, all that money will disappear, Arsene will buy some young striker nobodies really heard of for a modest fee. Normal service for a selling club will resume.

I really fear the longer Wenger stays, the worse the rot will get, and we'll be back where we were in the dark days of the mid 70s and early 80s, except the fans will still be paying ridiculous ticket prices to see a mediocre team playing mediocre football in a 60k capacity stadium - and then what happens when all those corporate boxes and seats get left empty, a large number of fairweather home fans start not turning up? It's not a happy thought.
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agreed. this is why i wantd wenger gone 3-4 years ago. Had we got rid of wenger when we still had a good decent squad, we would have been fine by now.

the longer he stays the harder it gets
 
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