Is it time to sack Wenger?

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It would be stupid to let Wenger go, personally i think a lot of Arsenal fans have forgotten who we really are and how much we've actually overachieved since Wenger came along. Just because we haven't competed with moneybags chelsea or united for a few years doesn't mean that any new manager will manage it.

The premiership for the last 5 years has been totally warped by money and excessive wages, Arsenals determination not to go down that path has cost them silverware, however it's the most sensible approach by far. I have no doubts that if the financial playing field was more even like it used to be, then Arsenal would have won plenty of trophies.

Unfortunately our success from previous years has attracted a certain type of supporter who desires instant success, you need to see the reality, that just because Arsenal don't mortgage their history for short term success, it doesn't mean that they're doing it wrong.

We are the only big team in the premiership with a state of the art stadium and a manageable debt level, when all the bricks start falling down around the premier league Arsenal will be one of the only left standing.
 
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Good post, even if Wenger had bought some big players over the last couple of seasons there's no guarantee that things would have been different. United were very strong for a few years and so were Chelsea, no shame in losing the title to those teams imo. It's easy to get consumed with your own club and talk about your own shortcomings but Man Utd were European champions and then runners up only to an outstanding Barcelona team, all the while, Chelsea have been consistently one of the best teams in Europe with one of the best club squads in the world. It would have taken something incredibly special for Arsenal to beat those teams to the title even with high spending, in Arsenal terms anyway (remembering that Arsenal have never spent £20m+ on a player in their entire history)

To come close actually having spent nothing is very good though and something that very few managers could have done over a 4-5 year period. Look at Liverpool, they have had a few seasons of relatively low spending and they've already slid heavily. It's very hard to do and something Wenger gets criticised for instead of lauded. Arsenal tried something different, they chose to secure the future of the club in a very unstable time and Arsenal have been transformed from a relatively mid-level club (in terms of England and Europe) and are now one of the biggest forces in both, which is down to Wenger's insight and sensibility.

Overall it's not ideal that there has been a lack of silverware, however I can personally take it as I realise that in real life things aren't like FM, sometimes you need to look ahead, especially in dire times such as these
 
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chimaera said:
It would be stupid to let Wenger go, personally i think a lot of Arsenal fans have forgotten who we really are and how much we've actually overachieved since Wenger came along. Just because we haven't competed with moneybags chelsea or united for a few years doesn't mean that any new manager will manage it.

The premiership for the last 5 years has been totally warped by money and excessive wages, Arsenals determination not to go down that path has cost them silverware, however it's the most sensible approach by far. I have no doubts that if the financial playing field was more even like it used to be, then Arsenal would have won plenty of trophies.

Unfortunately our success from previous years has attracted a certain type of supporter who desires instant success, you need to see the reality, that just because Arsenal don't mortgage their history for short term success, it doesn't mean that they're doing it wrong.

We are the only big team in the premiership with a state of the art stadium and a manageable debt level, when all the bricks start falling down around the premier league Arsenal will be one of the only left standing.
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Well said...im pretty certain that with Wenger in charge...we will start challenging for the EPL genuinely....this season has been a bit of a freak one in that we have been beaten comprehensively by Utd and Chelski twice but yet until the past 2 weeks we were right in the thick of the title chase.
 
guyfawkes5 said:
You'd have to injure 2-3 players for Manjoo or Chelski before you got to a player of Bender's 'quality'... Arsenal scraped the barrel after 1 - hence why I don't get why some Gooners are going on about selling a striker after Chamakh comes in.
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09-10

Bendtner 12 in 28
Berbatov 12 in 42

One cost 70k, the other cost 30m. One is experienced as he's going to be and as good as he's ever going to be, the other is a kid in pro football terms. In other words, get out.
 
My point is that Bendtner does get a bad rep. I'll admit happily that he's nowhere near the complete striker, he may never be, but he deserves a chance as he does have good assets to his game, and that isn't a bad return considering his injuries and playing half of the season on the wing.
 
jakeke said:
My point is that Bendtner does get a bad rep. I'll admit happily that he's nowhere near the complete striker, he may never be, but he deserves a chance as he does have good assets to his game, and that isn't a bad return considering his injuries and playing half of the season on the wing.
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Unless he gets a move to a decent side, nobody is ever going to find out......
 
atpbx said:
Ummmmm, I think even Bender would have buried 2 or 3 of the laid on a plate chances Berbatoss chose to squander last week against sunderland.
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You could say the same thing the other way around when Bendtner missed 6 chances against Burnley.

I've got a lot of time for Super Nick as he kept our season alive at times during the run in with crucial late goals here and there, however going into 2010/11 he shoud not be starting every week ... an Impact sub at most and perhaps he could still yet become the quality world class striker that he thinks he already is, in his head.
 
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atpbx said:
If you took his side from the start of the decade, with Henry, Vieira, Seaman, Adams, Keown, Bergkamp etc etc, it would give his current side such a hiding its untrue. Because somewhere along the line he drastically changed the way he builds a team.
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Wenger didnt sign most of them. They were already at Arsenal. So he hasnt changed the way he builds the team. Most of the invincibles were already signed. Its funny how when we splashed the cash we won things. Now we dont, we dont win things.

Pattern maybe?
 
You are totally on the money Jakeke, Arsenal is traditionally a very conservatively run club. It is frustrating sometimes to be so close to titles, and that sometimes we let good players go because of silly monetary quibbles (Cashley over about £5k a week, looks like Big Willy will be off because he can't get a 2 year deal etc etc), and for the love of god we do need to spend a bit of money on a keeper that isn't an utter joke.

However there are no major, unsustainable spending sprees and we can be proud that the successes we've had have been a result of our own income and not the influence of stupidly rich sugar daddies.

When we talk about Arsene's vision at the club, it isn't just the on field football. He is more involved than most managers in all the behind-the-scenes work, he is integral to the prolonged financial security we have enjoyed. He's overseen a move to a stadium that will bring us higher incomes for years to come, and he bleeds in a lot of young players who are the future of the club. I defy any other manager to come to the club and be able to be as immersed in its entire ethos as Arsene is. We honestly will be right in the **** when he decides to retire.

I personally am thankful that whilst we may not be splashing the cash, at least the football is still eminently watchable and attractive. Whether it's boring to be a fan of club that prioritises its financial stability ahead of short-term success I can't say. I guess we have to ask Pompey fans whether selling their souls for an FA Cup and a couple of seasons in the Premiership was worth it...


In Arsene we trust.
 
jakeke said:
09-10

Bendtner 12 in 28
Berbatov 12 in 42

One cost 70k, the other cost 30m. One is experienced as he's going to be and as good as he's ever going to be, the other is a kid in pro football terms. In other words, get out.
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Look at it another way, Berbatov 12 goals in 24 starts in the league.

Berbatov gets far too much abuse.
 
Stag said:
Look at it another way, Berbatov 12 goals in 24 starts in the league.

Berbatov gets far too much abuse.
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Berbatov is a truly brilliant player, completely misused by his manager, though so is Bendtner.

BOTH prefer being the withdrawn striker, neither like being a lone striker and both of them are better assist makers than goal scorers.

However both of their managers are playing a 4-5-1 with a lone striker and then when the first choice is unavailable, sticking them into a system they simply aren't designed for.

Berbatov, when started, and even more importantly, in a 4-4-2, helps Utd utterly dominate games.

With Ronaldo/Rooney making runs beyond Berbatov he was involved in most of their goals throughout last year, recieving the ball, plucking it out of the air with ease, turning and finding a killer pass in behind, sometimes he got the assist, sometimes it was the key pass in behind for Ronaldo to square it for Rooney to tap in, or vice versa.

Berbatov and Bendtner would have scored a crapload more if they were consistantly started in a system that suited them better.

As for Eduardo, since his injury I don't think he's had more than 3 starts in a row, he's often not played for MONTHS between appearances, there isn't a player in the WORLD who would show his best form, or even good form in those situations.

ALl it took for Vela was a SINGLE start, and then got a fantastic goal in the very next game.

If you don't play players, they won't play well in a random 10 minutes on the pitch every 2 months, thats just how football is. Judging Eduardo when he hasn't been given a single chance to get match fitness, let alone form, is insane. Not least when Wenger gives Diaby game after game despite playing like turd, same for Theo, how many games did he play towards the end of the season and still barely puts in 30 seconds of useful football a game.

AS for Sagna, he's not great going forwards, but anyone kicks the ball in the area a lot and they'll get assists(just look at SWP, utter crap but gets the odd assist). Defensively, where you guys neglected to mention, he's been god damned awful for 2years + now.

Did you not see any of the huge games where he was ripped a new one. Barca, played people onside WAY beyond our backline when he shouldn't have been. His attempts to close down Cole and block crosses in both Chelsea games were embarassing.

He was awful against Spurs and Liverpool last season and again this season, I believe at fault again by playing way deeper than the rest of our back 4 for one of the Spurs goals. He did it again recently, was probably against Blackburn.

He's been terrible defensively for so long its a joke. Eboue is both better getting forward, and MUCH better defensively. He also has the pace and interplay to work the right wing with winger, running the overlap and making space and still get back to defend.
 
When has he done that? Rooney's always played as the furthest forward for Utd when he's played alongside Berbatov. Fergie even mentioned something about that when he was explaining why Owen hadn't played much.
 
jakeke said:
09-10

Bendtner 12 in 28
Berbatov 12 in 42

One cost 70k, the other cost 30m. One is experienced as he's going to be and as good as he's ever going to be, the other is a kid in pro football terms. In other words, get out.
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Pretty ironic you should say 'get out' that given what you quoted was about Arsenal's depth in strikers rather than a 'Berbatov Vs. Bendtner' debate, on which count you lose anyway because of other points brought up above. To follow your point, I doubt even the biggest apologists of Bendtner's wedged boots would say that he should be a starter for Arsenal.

Hence why it's fairly shocking that some Gooners are going on about selling Van Persie once Chamakh comes in.
 
BaZ87 said:
When has he done that? Rooney's always played as the furthest forward for Utd when he's played alongside Berbatov. Fergie even mentioned something about that when he was explaining why Owen hadn't played much.
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whenever Rooney hasn't played pretty much (bar I think one game where Macheda started alongside him and a few with Owen)
 
guyfawkes5 said:
Pretty ironic you should say 'get out' that given what you quoted was about Arsenal's depth in strikers rather than a 'Berbatov Vs. Bendtner' debate, on which count you lose anyway because of other points brought up above. To follow your point, I doubt even the biggest apologists of Bendtner's wedged boots would say that he should be a starter for Arsenal.

Hence why it's fairly shocking that some Gooners are going on about selling Van Persie once Chamakh comes in.
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Sell RVP to Juve and get Buffon in...straight swap simple....RVP as much as i love him, he hasnt given us a full season since hes been with us.

Although id rather keep him and sell Edu and Vela and get Buffon in but rumours im hearing is that Buffon is being offered to Arsenal for RVP.
 
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