islam and violence...again

[ElRazur]

ElRaz - please dont continue baiting Muslim members here, we have been over things like this before and it doesn't get far... try looking at the ummah forums if you need a fix of Muslim opinion, it will either make you twice as wary or make you laugh until you collapse...

The idea of banning the Koran is terrible, there is no way on earth that the book shouldn't be allowed. Sends completely the wrong message.

TBH, this news shows how their members are lacking faith if they have to tempt them to do their supposed "Islamic duty" with money...

Yeah for real, im not set on baiting but all i want is a discussion on a neutral ground.

Im not saying quran should be banned, and the article has a question mark after the sentence. Having said that i also believe it made some valid point which i have quoted ( i did this because i was a muslim before and it is so true) and wonder what the muslims opinion will be as to whether it is all lies or just hear their view on it......

 

[Sleepy]

BBCi
A minister in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, Haji Yaqub, announces a $11m reward for anyone who beheads the cartoonist who drew the images of Muhammad.

 

[cleanbluesky]

This makes me feel bad. These people are fed on hate and their prophet would scorn them

 

[ElRazur]

...

Yeah, why does it have to be beheading all the time, can we just sniper shoot him down instead!

 

[Sleepy]

Yeah, why does it have to be beheading all the time, can we just sniper shoot him down instead!

Time for a repost:

An Englishman, an Irishman and the Prophet Mohammed walk into a pub and they notice the barmaid is an absolute stunner and she's dressed in the most revealing dress imaginable.

The Englishman says, "I'll buy the drinks all evening if either of you can get me her phone number".

The Irishman says, "No, I'll buy the drinks all evening and pay for a slap-up meal and pay for the cab home if either of you can get me a date with her."

The Prophet Mohammed shouts, "INFIDELS!" and cuts all their heads off with a scimitar.

 

[asim]

Wish I could roll my eyes harder than this little image

The more everyone talks about this crap the more it gets publicised and in the end the idiots causing the violence and offering bounties feed off all this ruckus and do more damage.

I couldnt care less about some cartoon. I dont care about some guy offering a bounty. I'd slap the guy in the face myself if I had the chance.


Its all a complete and utter joke. Its like all I went to do now is roll my eyes and sigh every time I see anything like this. A minority causes a problem so oh lets go and ban Islam or the Quran or something. Yea blame an entire religion and all the people in the world who are muslim. Yup this man offered a bounty to kill some artist. He's muslim, oh wait I'm muslim too so I must agree with what he's saying oh yea thats right I want an artist dead cause he drew a cartoon .

A man who blindly follows a religion is stupid. I like peace and I like what Islam has to say about peace. And if someone shows me some crap about the Quran having something about declare war on everyone else well **** that cause I have free will, I'm not retarded and I'd rather ignore that idea of war and concentrate on the peace.

Sigh

 

[ElRazur]

^^ you miss the bigger picture here. I agree with you but the fact no big cleric, mullah, ayatollah or alfa has come out to say "stop it" but more like we get things like "go on it is right and you will go to heaven"

 

[asim]

Yea well a person has got to think for themselves. What does the Quran say about murder. Well if you murder someone you go to hell. Now if some religious authority says. Murder that man and you'll go to heaven cause your doing it in the name of Islam. Are you going to blindly follow orders and murder someone?

Those who are TRULY muslim know the answer.

 

[ElRazur]

Yea well a person has got to think for themselves. What does the Quran say about murder. Well if you murder someone you go to hell. Now if some religious authority says. Murder that man and you'll go to heaven cause your doing it in the name of Islam. Are you going to blindly follow orders and murder someone?

Those who are TRULY muslim know the answer.

Please. Read all the quotes i made previously. I was once a muslim and it DOES ENCOURAGE the killing of non-muslim. So if these individual go on an animalistic and barbarian instict im sorry they are only following what the quran says.

Quran is staight from God in form of Revelation to Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W) in the cave over a period of time. No deletions and additions can be made and it is to be followed the way it is written. Now tell me TRUE or FALSE.

 

[asim]

Man is given the freedom of choice no matter what religion he chooses to follow. This was text written years and years ago.

Lets put it this way. There are far more muslims in the world NOT killing people. I cannot make false claims about the Quran without reading through the entire english translation. But partial quotations taken out a large book are not going to convince me that Islam is about killing non muslims.

You cannot take the text literally. It was written years ago. Thats a mistake that people make. Its like when reading for the signs of the day of judgement they assume its literal meanings.

If infact it says of killing non muslims then I'd assume its to do with being in a war where you are forced to fight against one another. I dont think your told to go out and butcher everyone in the streets...

 

[Jake 2.0]

I love that bit that says we can put a bounty on Bin Laden so they can put a bounty of the cartoonist, I've got news for them, the cartoonist hasn't blown up thousands of people

yes he hasnt but he has disrespected our Prophet which in our eyes is a big crime, i cant believe i have to reiterate this point again and again but your culture!= our culture, things may be legal in your culture != legal in our culture! so for emphasis i say this: just because you dont "think" the cartoon drawing is bad, it is bad!

as for the bounty, i would say that its the same thing as salman rushdie, someone put a bounty on his head yet he is still alive...

 

[Che]

This makes me feel bad. These people are fed on hate and their prophet would scorn them

How can you say that if you're not a muslim? Surely if you're not a muslim you don't believe or follow the teachings of the qu'ran so the whole idea of a prophet is ridiculous. It's like me saying that if someone destroyed the Houses Of Parliament because they believe that it is what Mickey Mouse preached then Mickey would be sad because he was a lovely character in reality. Preposterous to anyone except those who believe in Mickey Mouse's teachings.

 

[rlm]

The problem is, as with so many other cases, these actions are being done in the name of Islam, and therefore the whole religion is tarnished. Its the scale of the whole thing that’s scary, not like the IRA which was confined to one country predominantly with a bit of mainland British involvement too. This appears to be spread across all the continents and all of it is in the name of Islam. I feel sorry for the vast majority of Muslims who obviously want nothing to do with this and are just caught in the middle because of the name of the religion they follow. They are not of the same religion in my eyes, these extremists are not Muslims, not in a true sense.

The hardest part is that it seems to be down to the core Muslims to try and dispel the label that they have been branded with due to the extremist activity, which must be nigh on impossible. I for one don't want to live in a society where seeing a Muslim with a long ungroomed beard makes people feel uneasy, this is totally wrong and beyond words. The answer is certainly not banning the Quran, this wouldn’t solve anything, instead everyone needs to work together to remove or re-educate, if possible, the core of this problem.

In response to the people who have said that is it a huge offense to ridicule Mohhamed, this may be the case. BUT it can't possibly justify a call for the artist to be killed, or for any related deaths at all. There are so many other ways to show discord. Even the recent protests go far beond what is acceptable as I'm sure everyone here will agree, it makes me sick.

 

[Jake 2.0]

Wish I could roll my eyes harder than this little image

The more everyone talks about this crap the more it gets publicised and in the end the idiots causing the violence and offering bounties feed off all this ruckus and do more damage.

I couldnt care less about some cartoon. I dont care about some guy offering a bounty. I'd slap the guy in the face myself if I had the chance.


Its all a complete and utter joke. Its like all I went to do now is roll my eyes and sigh every time I see anything like this. A minority causes a problem so oh lets go and ban Islam or the Quran or something. Yea blame an entire religion and all the people in the world who are muslim. Yup this man offered a bounty to kill some artist. He's muslim, oh wait I'm muslim too so I must agree with what he's saying oh yea thats right I want an artist dead cause he drew a cartoon .

A man who blindly follows a religion is stupid. I like peace and I like what Islam has to say about peace. And if someone shows me some crap about the Quran having something about declare war on everyone else well **** that cause I have free will, I'm not retarded and I'd rather ignore that idea of war and concentrate on the peace.

Sigh

no offence but the whole point of "picking and choosing the religion" is not right. and by saying what you said in the last paragraph i "think" (and forgive me if i am wrong) you havent a clue about Quranic translation. In Quran it doesnt say anything about war and what not. (people pick up one verse and say "look Quran is bad" yet they ignore the surrounding verses AND are not aware of the fact that some of the verses were revealed for people of that time so not applicable now.

as for its some cartoon fact: again i aplogise but as a muslim you should be angry. i am not saying you should go out and start protest as we live in foreign land and must respect their laws but still know in your mind/heart that its wrong.

why its wrong? when we draw cartoons of Prophet and then whenever we THINK of Prophet we will instantly think of him as in that cartoon which is bad.

 

[ElRazur]

Man is given the freedom of choice no matter what religion he chooses to follow. This was text written years and years ago.

Yes but man have been shown to be mislead by a few. The fact it was written years ago can be viewed as sacred and "untochable" as the demostration all over the world have shown.

Lets put it this way. There are far more muslims in the world NOT killing people. I cannot make false claims about the Quran without reading through the entire english translation. But partial quotations taken out a large book are not going to convince me that Islam is about killing non muslims.

I dont necessarily agrre with you there, im from Nigeria and i have withnessed these things first hand. There's no need to make false claims, if i dont know what anything i will rather keep my mouth shut. Those quotations are what the explanations of the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w) represents. His teachings are of war and when i say war i am not talking the "good vs evil war" rather war against non-believer.
Prophet Muhammed (s.aw) unlike Jesus Christ never preached in parables i.e "when slapped on your right cheek turn the left one" he's (s.a.w) more like word for word. Bow arrows, sword (his favourite) and Horse to spread the word of God.

If infact it says of killing non muslims then I'd assume its to do with being in a war where you are forced to fight against one another. I dont think your told to go out and butcher everyone in the streets...

I think i have answered this above, i will suggest you get an english copy of quran and come back. Dont bring a Knife to a Gun fight.

 

[Sleepy]

If infact it says of killing non muslims then I'd assume its to do with being in a war where you are forced to fight against one another.

Those are the only suras I know about that allow killing.

 

[asim]

no offence but the whole point of "picking and choosing the religion" is not right. and by saying what you said in the last paragraph i "think" (and forgive me if i am wrong) you havent a clue about Quranic translation. In Quran it doesnt say anything about war and what not. (people pick up one verse and say "look Quran is bad" yet they ignore the surrounding verses AND are not aware of the fact that some of the verses were revealed for people of that time so not applicable now.

as for its some cartoon fact: again i aplogise but as a muslim you should be angry. i am not saying you should go out and start protest as we live in foreign land and must respect their laws but still know in your mind/heart that its wrong.

why its wrong? when we draw cartoons of Prophet and then whenever we THINK of Prophet we will instantly think of him as in that cartoon which is bad.

lol your telling me to be angry? Thats funny. What is that anger going to do for me? Honestly is it a representation of how much I love Islam, the prophet Mohammad and God? If you say yes then your bloody wrong. It frustrates me to see these kinds of things happening. But I cant judge the guy for drawing a cartoon. Its God place to judge.

I defend my religion, and defend it and defend it and defend it. In the end the bad occurrences televised win. So I stop voicing my opinion.

I know why the cartoon is wrong. But I'm not like everyone out there who wanted to resort to violence and be extreme about it. I'm not gonna come out and say YOUR WRONG I'M RIGHT. The guy drew the cartoon. It was wrong in my eyes. But I'm not going to get worked up about it because if I get worked up everytime then its not going to help.

You choose to be religious. You choose Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. I choose to be muslim but like I said I'm not going to blindly follow the religion. God is not stupid you know. Certain things are written in the Quran, and I dont think in this day and age he expects us to act upon it all. This thing about war. I feel I'm right here. In my eyes Islam represents peace, but if it comes down to war well speaking in religious terms you would fight along side your religious brothers/sisters against those who are not. If you are fighting in the name on the religion that is.

Like you said some of the verses were for the people at the time. Not applicable now.

 

[ElRazur]

In my eyes Islam represents peace, .

Dont say that again ...please

.Typically, the liberal sympathisers of Muslim “sensitivities” do not seem to notice how childishly selfish the Muslim position is. For centuries and until today, Islam has ordered the destruction of everything that is sacred to other religions, starting with the 360 idols in the Kaaba (including Jesus and Mary) smashed to pieces by Muhammad himself, down to the Bamian Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban in 2001, the weekly vandalising of Hindu temples in Bangladesh, or the destruction of Christian churches in Iraq during the last couple of months. In many cases, moreover, not only the places of worship but the worshippers too have been assaulted. What an arrogance for Muslims, with their heritage of iconoclastic insensitivity, to put up this show of indignation for a handful of harmless cartoons. And now we are being expected to feel pity for those poor touch-me-nots?

Yeah, this is VERY peaceful indeed.

.The Quran contains dozens of verses that preach hostility to Pagans (polytheists, Zoroastrian ‘fire-worshippers’ and atheists), Jews and Christians. It denounces their teachings as false and evil and a sure passport to hell. By modern Western standards the author of the Quran is entitled to his freedom of opinion on religions. But by KifKif standards, these insulting comments on other people’s religions are not so innocent and ought to be curtailed, especially in a multicultural society. (And indeed, the orthodox sources agree that it was Muhammad’s lifetime achievement to have transformed Arabia’s multicultural society into a monolithic Islamic one.)

The Quran also expressly forbids conversion from Islam to other religions, while allowing and encouraging the reverse. This becomes problematic in the light of the KifKif authors’ plea for equality and reciprocity. It is also in contravention of the ECHR’s article 9, to which they purportedly adhere, for this article defines “freedom of religion” as including “the right to change one’s religion.”

And you never answered my question as to whether it was TRUE or FALSE.

 

[oweneades]

yes he hasnt but he has disrespected our Prophet which in our eyes is a big crime, i cant believe i have to reiterate this point again and again but your culture!= our culture, things may be legal in your culture != legal in our culture! so for emphasis i say this: just because you dont "think" the cartoon drawing is bad, it is bad!

And that justifies death and destruction?!

A cartoon is a cartoon regardless of content. They are not real life drawings but something that is designed to create a light hearted humurous look at the problems with the world. Or at least thats how I look at them. To take something as simple as a cartoon to heart is quite frankly weird. Surely there are more important things in life then getting stressed out by a cartoon.

I can understand how it maybe wrong to portray a religious character in such a way but to react with violence is pathetic. It makes all Muslims look bad which they arn't.

 

[asim]

ElRazur. Your statements I guess tell me you've seen things in your life that make you believe Islam is a religion based on violence. Well so be it.

I am one man among the many who believe Islam is about peace. I was raised a muslim. I was raised to believe its a peaceful religion. All that I've read, and all I have been told solidifies that for me.

I have been to many countries and those that I've been to muslims live there lives like everyone else. The only difference between muslims and non muslims is that we pray in a slightly different way, we believe in slightly different things. We are surrounded by non muslims but we live in peace. We talk, we have non muslim friends. Hell we dont see religion we see people.

I see a friend. I dont see colour and I dont see religion.

You've obviously got problems with the religion. But MILLIONS of us dont. If people start killing in the name of Christianity will that make you wish they ban that religion too?

You have to look at all the people that are muslims and do nothing wrong. Not the minority that cause trouble.