islam and violence...again
- Thread starter ElRazur
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Soldato
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They've had their ego hurt - unforetunately their response to this has been awfully basic
Soldato
Agreed but that's the joys of religion for you!Energize said:
Soldato
Freak_boy said:
You are correct in so much as one culture is not always equal to the other. However, any culture is bound by the laws of the land. So if you live in the United Kingdom you are bound by her laws.
In this country we have freedom of speach - an essential tenament of a modern civilization and the same rules that let the Muslim protestors wave those banners.
The sword of free speach cuts both ways and perhaps people should have checked what Islam feels about drawing the prophet. They could have avoided this by not publishing but they chose to do so and are protected by law.
These civil liberties are an essential part of society and are needed for the future of mankind. We cannot live in either an Orwellian Police State or under Islamic law because both lead to the opression of basic human rights.
However, most Muslims are capable of living under the laws in the country they live in. I know a lot of Muslims and Islam is a religion of peace no matter what some non-muslims and some muslim extremists say.
Soldato
Double post. Sorry
So they see a man who was behind the two towers equal to a guy who drew a caroon? To be honest the Islamic community should excommunicate these guys ro something. WE allknow 99% of muslims are nothing like this, but they could do more to help prove they arnt.
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jezsoup said:
When people say "we all know" I get curious as to why they want me to believe something they say...
We know the majority of muslims aren't the ones holding the knives, but an awful lot dont seem to blink at the bloodshed.
Soldato
ElRazur said:
100% true.
Im gonna try and make this simple, so that everyone can understand it. Islam is about peace yes, but tell me something when you live with devils how can you be an angel? Is it possible? If you are attacked you MUST defend yourself right? Or am I wrong? By your reasoning, self defence is not allowed because someone might die!
The prophet Muhammed PBUH is the very essence of Islam, without him there is no Islam. To insult him (as the cartoons intended) is to insult Islam, and that offends a lot of people, including me. Do I take to the streets with a gun? No I dont because I have a brain 'shock horror'
I have read the Quran in english any many other books on Islam, the hadith etc, my mind wonders if the prophet PBUH was alive today what would HE have done? There is so much lies and negative things on the internet about Islam but the light off the prophet PBUH will never fade. I really do urge people to read EVERYTHING about his life, not just... 'well he fought in wars, killed people, spread Islam by the sword' etc etc. As he grew up he was given the nickname 'the truthful' he was respected by everyone, no one had ever met anyone with such character as Muhammed PBUH. Let me tell you a little story that comes to mind...
During the prophets PBUH time there was an old woman who made a habit of throwing rubbish on the Prophet (SAW) whenever he passed from her house. Muhammad (SAW) had to pass that house daily on the way to the mosque. Even when the old woman threw rubbish on him, he would pass silently without showing any anger or annoyance. This was a regular, daily event.
One day when Prophet was passing by the woman was not there to throw the rubbish. He stopped and asked the neighbour about her well-being. The neighbour informed the prophet that the woman was sick in bed. The prophet politely asked permission to visit the woman. When allowed he entered the house, the woman thought that he had come there to take his revenge when she was unable to defend herself because of sickness. But the prophet assured her that he had come to her, not to take any revenge, but to see her and to look after her needs, as it was the command of Allah that if any one is sick, a Muslim should visit him and should help him if his help is needed.
The old woman was greatly moved by this kindness and she accepted Islam.
The prophet PBUH showed great patience during any difficult times, you just have to read the 'unbiased' sources, and no there isnt much of it on the internet :/
I am very much against these cartoons, but I realise there are more peaceful ways to show my disapproval. I am against ANYONE who shows any disrespect and insult to someone elses religion. Making cartoons of the Prophet PBUH is a direct insult, it was intended to insult muslims, and the whole freespeech rubbish was just an excuse used to cover it up.
If Islam is so evil and so bad, why is it so appealing to so many western people? If you take the time to read exactly what Islam teaches, im sure 95% of you on here will be very suprised.
Some videos of westerners who have converted to Islam:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4715939938837859198&q=muslim
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=muslim
People fear what they dont understand, and if all you ever see about Islam is what CNN shows you, then I can fully understand where you are coming from, but take the time to see what Islam is truly about, and that these UNEDUCATED idiots who behead people etc can not back it up with nothing from the Quran, those people who kill innocent civilians can NOT use the Quran or Islam as an excuse because there is nothing in there that allows it. They are simply uneducated. But those muslims in parts of the world which are under constant attack, have the full right to fight back, as much as some people wish they would just lie down and die, they wont, and they never will as long as their hearts are beating.
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Islam doesnot have a central authority, there is no equivalent to the Pope who can speak with divine authority. Also excommunication is a christian concept.jezsoup said:
BTW One of Al Q aims is to restore the central authority, the Caliph to rule the Caliphate, the Isalmic Empire of old
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It's just a cartoon.
Anyway, aren't you adults a little too old to have make-believe friends? *eyes up religious followers*
I really wish I could meet with some of these extremeists, and then beat them around the face with a side of bacon or something. They are *just* cartoons.
Anyway, aren't you adults a little too old to have make-believe friends? *eyes up religious followers*
I really wish I could meet with some of these extremeists, and then beat them around the face with a side of bacon or something. They are *just* cartoons.
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Not true but a convenient fiction to con the ignorant. In the period after Muhammeds death the various companions circulated various differing versions of what he said. Depending on who's telling the story the Caliph Uthman ibn Affan formed a committee to determine what was to be in the quran. The official version was then distributed around the Caliphate, versions that differred were destroyed. Others place the formation of the quran over a longer period.e36Adz said:
What do you mean? Islam was spread by a military empire, how is that peace? It has a martial tradition how is that peace?
Turn the other cheek, become a pacifist these are elements of a religion of peace.
Then you've got a problem cos its not a western value and hasn't been since Roman Times except when various Relgious factions gained temporal power.
Thats a direct insult, good job your not expected to abide by the standards you seek to impose on others.
Its not, the only gains it is making is in immigrant communities usually cursed by poverty and a lack of opportunity
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ElRazur said:
Not a very learned muslim are you. Wow you changed from muslim to non muslim? Rare thing. Islam clearly states peace between religions, islamic history (if you learnt it) will show that many faiths existed peacefully together. Remember, the people are flawed in their beliefs and the way that they act, not the religion.
I just see this thread as another shot at muslims and for people to show their hatred, the very same people make up excuses when muslims are the victims from non muslims - pathetic.
Reply to Sleepy:
So wrong, this is the mistake both muslims and non muslims make. Islam was NOT spread by the sword, the only time military action (as you say) was used, was to defend themselves or their land. As I said before, islamic history shows this. Perhaps youd like it to have been spread by the sword so you could make people believe that islam is all about violence, people like you will never see or believe the truth as your hearts are covered. No matter what I say or show you, you will always disagree or find a reason to reject it. I know
Islamic history, whether you believe it or not - Islam was endorsed by people out of their own free will and violence in no way was used.
lmao - Dont you guys just love these double standards and hipocracy?
Pathetic.
Cat stevens (now Yusuf Islam), Neil Armstrong, Mike Tyson, Mohammad Ali, are to name very few converts (I mean very few) who have converted to Islam and arent too poor Perhaps get some real facts before you say something?
Meh, I wont read into this anymore. Just hatred and lies mostly.
So wrong, this is the mistake both muslims and non muslims make. Islam was NOT spread by the sword, the only time military action (as you say) was used, was to defend themselves or their land. As I said before, islamic history shows this. Perhaps youd like it to have been spread by the sword so you could make people believe that islam is all about violence, people like you will never see or believe the truth as your hearts are covered. No matter what I say or show you, you will always disagree or find a reason to reject it. I know
Islamic history, whether you believe it or not - Islam was endorsed by people out of their own free will and violence in no way was used.
lmao - Dont you guys just love these double standards and hipocracy?
Pathetic.Cat stevens (now Yusuf Islam), Neil Armstrong, Mike Tyson, Mohammad Ali, are to name very few converts (I mean very few) who have converted to Islam and arent too poor
Perhaps get some real facts before you say something?Meh, I wont read into this anymore. Just hatred and lies mostly.
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zain said:Cat stevens (now Yusuf Islam), Neil Armstrong, Mike Tyson, Mohammad Ali, are to name very few converts (I mean very few) who have converted to Islam and arent too poor
You realise that Mohammed Ali and Mike Tyson are converts to Nation of Islam, which is more a political black power movement strung around some Islamic rhetoric and actively disobeys a lot of the priciples of Islam and is generally a very different thing, right?
Oh, and Neil Armstrong?
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Hoaxes/neil.html
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/fl_armstrong_030311.html
So then, Cat Stephens, looking worse for wear and practically giving up his musical talent in the process... I'll give you that one but then again a combination of alcoholism, drugs excess, hospitalisation and TB can do funny things to a man I suppose.
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Suspended
zain said:
In Islam’s first centuries, Muslim scholars and jurists formulated their understanding of the religious and political division of the world into the Dar al-Islam, or the House of Peace, and the Dar al-Harb, the House of War. While truces between Islamic and non-Muslim polities were acceptable, the Koran taught that these were to be limited in duration. Ultimately, no permanent peace between Muslims and nonbelievers was possible until all nonbelievers submitted to Muslim rule, and the Dar al-Islam encompassed the whole world. Jihad, either in the form of the “greater jihad” (the struggle all Muslims must wage against sin) or the “lesser jihad” (the armed struggle with nonbelievers), was integral to bringing wholeness and unity to a divided world.
Muslim theologians are unanimous in declaring that no religious toleration was extended to the idolaters of Arabia at the time of Muhammad. The only choice given them was death or the acceptance of Islam. This total intolerance never seems to be taken into consideration by the apologists of Islam when they lay claims to Islamic tolerance. Unbelievers in general are shown no mercy in the Koran which is full of lurid descriptions of the punishments awaiting them. xxii.9:"As for the unbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skins shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron- rods.
The Koran also enjoins all Muslims to fight and kill non-believers
xlvii.4): "When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."Is this your idea of freewill to the conversion to Islam?....or how about these....
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/donner.html
http://www.saveindia.com/gautier.htm
If you choose to exercise freewill then surely you cannot be a muslim....the teachings are the truth....think not but act as is willed
freewill must mean something entirely different to you?!!
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Soldato
Dingo said:
The Koran also enjoins all Muslims to fight and kill non-believers
Yes the Quran does say fight and kill... THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU. Please mate read the whole chapter not just one line. When you are fighting in a war, is says kill, it doesnt say capture people and torture them, it doesnt say kill innocent women and children, infact the prophet PBUH laid out some strict laws before they went to war eg. Do no harm anyone in a religious building, do not hard the elderly or women and children etc etc yeah I know most of these have gone out the window these days.
Dingo said:If you choose to exercise freewill then surely you cannot be a muslim....the teachings are the truth....think not but act as is willed
freewill must mean something entirely different to you?!!
Its not so much about freewill, its about choice isnt it? Islam basically says that this is the way it is... this is what will happen, look around you and see the signs for yourself, a time will come when you will to account for your actions etc. It is pretty clear cut in what it says but ultimately the person is left with his/her own choice as to what they want to do about it. Its a belief, so no matter what, if someone doesnt believe it, they cant be 'forced' too can they?
Soldato
cleanbluesky said:
Mike Tyson im not sure ever converted properly to Islam, Muhammed Ali did join the nation of islam at first but in his later life like Malcom X entered into the true Islam after the visited Mecca. Cat Stevens converted yep, but Neil Armstrong lol? That was just a wild internet rumour I think :/