The ECHR (and linking economies of the various countries) was the reason.... oh and its not overly peaceful right now
Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter Uther
- Start date
- Status
The ECHR (and linking economies of the various countries) was the reason.... oh and its not overly peaceful right now
You would need to get rid of all religion (which will never happen) and then a couple of generations changing the cultural normality of all sides to be accepting of the other, if that's even possible.
Whilst that is happening, you would also need to prevent any militant factions (people who 'disagree' with the authority) from breaking away, or... protesting.
So you'd need a totalitarean regime for 'good'... which of course is impossible because there will not be a consensus on what is the right way.
Therefore, you end up with compromise, organised by the most powerful players, that everyone else *must* accept, or they will be... 'convinced'.
It doesn't matter where your beliefs lie - there is no way for this to end 'nicely', or for a compromise that will last. With communication and freedom so much greater in the modern world, due to technology, this is how things are. Colonialism was bad - but it was also the only reason a lot of 'peace' existed - by force. Take that away, and you're back to the real problem.
Humans are tribal. You can never change that. When two tribes meet, they invoke the rule of Frankie.
This *is* our life now. How it turns out, I don't think anybody knows, longer term. You can guarantee that each government has ideas about how it should, and that they aren't all thinking the same.
Whilst that is happening, you would also need to prevent any militant factions (people who 'disagree' with the authority) from breaking away, or... protesting.
So you'd need a totalitarean regime for 'good'... which of course is impossible because there will not be a consensus on what is the right way.
Therefore, you end up with compromise, organised by the most powerful players, that everyone else *must* accept, or they will be... 'convinced'.
It doesn't matter where your beliefs lie - there is no way for this to end 'nicely', or for a compromise that will last. With communication and freedom so much greater in the modern world, due to technology, this is how things are. Colonialism was bad - but it was also the only reason a lot of 'peace' existed - by force. Take that away, and you're back to the real problem.
Humans are tribal. You can never change that. When two tribes meet, they invoke the rule of Frankie.
This *is* our life now. How it turns out, I don't think anybody knows, longer term. You can guarantee that each government has ideas about how it should, and that they aren't all thinking the same.
And guess who was a big player in drafting the EHCR... and now wants out (for it's own government selfish reasons) despite claiming multiculturism has not failed.
They should just light it as a rainbow. Have Bungle and Zippy on the pitch. No better sign of unity than that.The state of the UK
Sir Winston Churchill and he died in 1955. He was a liberal Conservative, vastly different to the party and ideology of today
Last edited:
You're kidding, right? The 1947 partition plan was incredibly generous. It would have taken away ~40% of the Jews' land and given it to the Arabs; more than sufficient for a viable state. As a bonus, the Arabs would have received all the immediate territory around Old Jerusalem, allowing them to control access to the city.
The Arabs rejected this because they wanted even more, then they tried to take it all by force, and Israel kicked the **** out of them. Sucks to suck!
We don't have to assume it, polls and studies have shown that support for Hamas in Gaza has maintained a solid majority for years. A poll taken 2 years ago showed 53% support for Hamas, and 14% for Fatah. That was across both territories, Gaza and the West Bank.
Last edited:
That's it, the two sides do not have a compromise position. This is as I was saying a case of two sides being so fundamentally opposed that only war will resolve it. If this wasn't the case we'd have not had wars for millennia. Not everyone is reasonable or can coexist.
I am not really sure why the country was carved up originally in the way it was... It was a mess:
Why couldnt they carve it up in a more sensible North/South or East/West way? Why carve it up in a way that essentially makes enclaves of each country?
Why couldnt they carve it up in a more sensible North/South or East/West way? Why carve it up in a way that essentially makes enclaves of each country?
Israel's top priority is Hamas.
The internationsl popularity contest is way down the list right now. Israel will never win that contest anyway.
How are you going to carve up Jerusalem then?I am not really sure why the country was carved up originally in the way it was... It was a mess:
Why couldnt they carve it up in a more sensible North/South or East/West way? Why carve it up in a way that essentially makes enclaves of each country?
There's a mosque built on the site where a Jewish temple used to be. Ultimately that mosque will be removed and temple rebuilt.
Last edited:
Absolutely, and also a very different world than today. We're also not quite the colonial country we once were, although seem to think we have similar power.
But you can't claim multiculturism hasn't failed and at the same time want to change the rules such that you don't have to respect as much multiculturism.
There are no easy answers, because of the same reason in the rest of the thread. Humans are not brought up in a shared culture that makes them a match for other cultures, and never will be.
What we need is respect for other cultures, but still realising that they do not necessarily 'mix' well in all ways.
We don't want isolationism, but also can't manage 'full' multiculturism - so where do we go ?
I am not really sure why the country was carved up originally in the way it was... It was a mess:
Why couldnt they carve it up in a more sensible North/South or East/West way? Why carve it up in a way that essentially makes enclaves of each country?
They didn't carve it up that way. This was the 1947 UN partition plan, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. So it was never enacted.
Under this plan, Jerusalem was going to be an international city owned by neither Jews nor Arabs, and administered by a third party. But the Arabs wanted all of it.
I think polls aren't reliable in Gaza when the political parties are literally militant groups.
Hamas killed many Fatah people. So saying you'd vote for Fatah in a Hamas controlled area would be brave.
It would have helped the area if Jordan and Egypt hadn't stolen land that was originally going to be part of Palestine.
Hamas killed many Fatah people. So saying you'd vote for Fatah in a Hamas controlled area would be brave.
It would have helped the area if Jordan and Egypt hadn't stolen land that was originally going to be part of Palestine.
Firstly, Irael doesn't need military funding from the US, she's the most powerful military force in the Middle East already, and she has nukes.
Secondly, Israel has enemies across the entire world, including Russia. If Hamas were to magically disappear off the face of the earth, Israel would still have more enemies than you can throw a dog at. The idea that Israel 'needs' enemies to maintain US funding is ludicrous.
Last edited:
Separate countries with a shared culture. Where your culture differs to the point of being illegal you either suck it up or move to another country where the culture/law is a better fit. It's basically where we used to be before globalism. You can respect your neighbour and be friends but not want to live like them. There seems to be some weird idea now that we're all the same and want the same things, we don't.
- Status