Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Wow, 300,000 reservists recruited now, for an area the size of Gaza. Makes Russians initial build up for the whole of Ukraine look like an even bigger joke.

Food, fuel, electricity cut. It’s only going to end one way this time.

Hamas lost their minds over this one.
 
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It's not really that complicated.

Jewish immigrants flooded the area. The local Arabs got annoyed and fighting broke out. The UN divided up the land. The hostilities have been getting worse. Peace is very fragile. Hamas decided to end discussions with this attack. Israel will now kick sand in their faces. The rest of the surrounding Arab nations don't think too much of the Israelis. If we are lucky, then the conflict won't escalate. This has long been considered the tinderbox that could start World War III, so let's hope it won't.

The end (of the beginning).

No one else will get involved. They won’t risk a direct conflict with the US.

I suspect the ringleaders of Hamas will bolt into Egypt to escape the consequences of their actions when the net closes in.

I suspect Israel will soon control that border.
 
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As night follows day others will join in i fear. The way Gaza's getting pummelled now this situation will escolate. Really hope ours and others secret security services have their eyes and ears open because i believe certain governments wouldnt be too bothered at terrorist outrages if it keeps them in power.
 
It's difficult to express this take without being long winded, but there's a lot of "but this" and " but that" and I think this post does well to address it:

"Why I Always Supported Israel - An Unusual Take​

I'll start this rant with a opinion that goes against the grain of most people here. I never understood the big deal about which tribe was there first, or who considers that land as part of their identity, because it was around long before any humans. The reality is every piece of land had conflict over territory, people were displaced, and people adapted and created new cultures. This land in particular was at some point owned by Canaanites, Egyptians, Judeans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Ottomans and British, etc. I understand the idea of a 'homeland' is important, but at some point people need to accept that your DNA doesn't tie you a specific location.
I feel that Islamic nations put a lot of pressure on there being a Palestine and forcing the people to live in those conditions. They refuse to give them shelter or integrate them, because they refuse to accept that a non-Islamic nation was constructed on a tiny (the size of New Jersey) piece of land that was without leadership, without a legally recognized border, and which hosted a hodgepodge of different peoples and cultures. They are okay with watching people suffer for a cause that they invented. They refuse to drop their greed so that Jews can have a place to call home, after centuries of actual oppression and displacement.
Now for a more controversial opinion. Israel is better for the world than what would've been Palestine. They have their share of fundamentalism, but for the most part they are a free and thriving society. They contribute to areas of agriculture, medicine, energy and many other technological advancements. They are a democratic beacon of light in an otherwise backwards and oppressive part of the world. What they have done with a sliver of land is beyond anything that the wider Islamic nations have accomplished.
So who are the bad guys in the entire thing? The conflict goes back many decades and has a lot of events. The most general summary is that Israel is the only party that has tried to find a peaceful resolution at all times. Atrocities such as the Nakba would've never happened if the Arab leaders were willing to negotiate the 1947 partition and accept the many peaceful options. They refused to accept that the land, which had no leadership since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, could possibly host displaced Jews. They have done everything in their power to make the situation hostile and violent. The Israelis have a documented history of trying to make peace with their neighbors (Camp David Accord, Madrid Conference, Oslo Accord etc.,) they have accepted and given full rights to ethnically Palestinian people within their borders, given them medical care, and provided them with water and utilities. Things that the the ethnically and culturally identical people of Jordan and Egypt have refused, because they want to continue the hostility and increase Palestinian suffering.
In recent times, Israel has been involved in a lot of controversy over incidents that no person can approve of (including myself). I'm referring to unsanctioned settlements and violence towards people. However, I look at the bigger picture. If you are surrounded by people who will take any opportunity to kill you and your family, you too would become desensitized and bitter towards them. Palestinians are constantly provoking, terrorizing and maintaining hostility, and when Israel has had enough, the whole thing is documented for the world to see from a specific narrative. There is also a large microscope on a tiny minority of radical Jews who do things like land takeover, something that the vast majority of Israel doesn't support, and something that should be condemned.
The events that are that are now transpiring have cemented that there can be no peaceful resolution with Islamic groups. Decades of failed attempts to find a solution and any meaningful progress with a belligerent party. These violent acts, you might see that as as result of frustration, but that's a tiny drop of what is happening. The whole thing is funded by people who have no care or interest for the well-being of Palestinian groups. It's the same cruel and violent groups that cause so much misery in places such as Iran and Iraq, and everywhere that their beliefs are tolerated. I will forever support this beacon of democratic light that is Israel."

 
"The Israeli infrastructure minister says he has ordered an immediate cut-off of water supplies to the Gaza Strip."

"What was in the past, will no longer be in the future," Israel Katz said in a social media post announcing the cut-off.
 
Most of the migration occurred after Israel declared independence in 1947. According to this article there were approximately 650,000 Jews living in Israel at the time of independence in 1947. From 1948 to 1951 after independence was declared approximately 688,000 more people migrated to Israel (and another 188,000 by the end of the decade). The point being that most of the migration into Israel happened after independence.


I'm struggling to find and understand Palestinian figures. But this article seems to suggest there were around 270,000 in the West Bank, at least 160,000 in the Gaza Strip, around 150,000 in Israel itself totalling around 580,000 Palestinians. There were somewhere between 1 million to 1.5 million Arabic inhabitants in the area before the start of WW1 under the Ottoman Empire. But the suggestion in the article is that many of those people had left during the war and before the creation of Israel.


I may have misunderstood those figures. I'm really not an expert on this area of history. But on the face of it there doesn't appear to be a 90% Palestinian population which was overrun by Jewish immigrants. It appears to be roughly a 50/50 split in the area just before Israeli independence in 1947. There was then a period of significant Jewish immigration after independence.

I was quoting wiki quote in 1882 the population (current day Israel/West Bank/Gaza) numbered approximately 320,000 people, 25,000 of whom were Jewish. But using the stats below it looks to be wrong (unless it's using a specific region):

Overview of Palestine's demographics from the 1st century to the Mandate Era. Figures in thousands.

YearJewsChristiansMuslimsTotal
1533–153956145157
1690–1691211219232
1800722246275
18904357432532
19149470525689
19228471589752
1931175897601,033
19476301431,1811,970

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)

Bare in mind the Balfour Declaration was made in 1917. So between 1917 and 1947 there would be mass immigration of Jewish peoples to modern day Israel. So perhaps I'm not being entirely fair taking the 1890 numbers but they were a near time period before the Balfour decleration where you'd assume the people were the original inhabitants. Obviously mass migration and the plan for Jewish nation was in place from the late 1800s onwards with massive increases post Balfour

The Arab/Palestinian population also grew massively if we take your figures and mine as accurate (in 2023 I think we assume wiki is accurate. The assumption would be that post the WW1 Arab Revolt against the Otomans, this meant there was either less conscription from Palestine or living there became more desirable since the Turk influence was removed.

It should also be noted that the Balfour Decleration gave the local Palestinian Arabs no political rights or autonomy and is a large part of the reason for today's issues.
 
"The Israeli infrastructure minister says he has ordered an immediate cut-off of water supplies to the Gaza Strip."

"What was in the past, will no longer be in the future," Israel Katz said in a social media post announcing the cut-off.
Cutting off water and food to civilians is going way too far and will lose Israel the initial support they gained. It risks bringing other Arab countries into the conflict.
 
"The Israeli infrastructure minister says he has ordered an immediate cut-off of water supplies to the Gaza Strip."

"What was in the past, will no longer be in the future," Israel Katz said in a social media post announcing the cut-off.

Understandable, if those from Gaza are prepared to kill indiscriminately and cheer, why should Israel supply anything.
 
Understandable, if those from Gaza are prepared to kill indiscriminately and cheer, why should Israel supply anything.
Everyone (apart from the US) would probably not be too happy to see 2 million dying from lack of food and water.

Israel will have to either expel them all or allow food back in.
 
It's not really that complicated.

Jewish immigrants flooded the area. The local Arabs got annoyed and fighting broke out. The UN divided up the land. The hostilities have been getting worse. Peace is very fragile. Hamas decided to end discussions with this attack. Israel will now kick sand in their faces. The rest of the surrounding Arab nations don't think too much of the Israelis. If we are lucky, then the conflict won't escalate. This has long been considered the tinderbox that could start World War III, so let's hope it won't.

The end (of the beginning).
That's pretty much actually all I know well.

I don't really understand how Israel came it to be.

Also don't really understand how much support gaza has from external countries that could escalate this.

Its an area I'd never visit as it just has too many unknowns and it's thus quite a big "gap" in my geography/history knowledge



Was there anything in particular that kicked this off? (all this started while I was away)
 
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Really hope ours and others secret security services have their eyes and ears open because i believe certain governments wouldnt be too bothered at terrorist outrages if it keeps them in power.
yes, you'd expect airlines to be potentially increasing security ... yes - seems rishi has a cobra meeting.
 
The Arab league chief has just said if Israel doesnt calm down in Gaza this wont be the last war they face. This is all going swimmingly innit. Oh his in Russia to visit Vladamir well at least he keeps nice company.
 
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"The Israeli infrastructure minister says he has ordered an immediate cut-off of water supplies to the Gaza Strip."

"What was in the past, will no longer be in the future," Israel Katz said in a social media post announcing the cut-off.
Electric, water, food shipments, everything needed to basically live is cut off for 80% of Gaza by the Israeli gov.

That will get them support for sure.
 
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