Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

wildman · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:49

Jono8 said:
I think what Hamas don't understand, is that you don't really come across as a rational and trustworthy people to negotiate with when you behead babies.

rational and trustworth aren't 2 adjectives that should ever be used in the same sentence as Hamas.......................

IGBT · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:49

BUDFORCE said:
I mean part of me thinks this was to bait Israel into attacking Gaza so then they could try and play some kind of political victim to gain support.

Which maybe, and only maybe would have worked if they only gone after military targets.

That goes out the window the second you start setting babies on fire.

How can they expect having support after, and let’s not talk about the events in the last 2 or 3 days, the recent news babies and young children being shot dead, burnt and decapitated? Who in their perfect mind will support these guys after these recent events?

I think there is only one way for this.

Twinz · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:50

ICDP said:
Your problem is you want to go straight to Defcon 5 despite there being plenty of less extreme military options available. I was not a fan of the Iraq war but can at least acknowledge it was done in a way the minimised civilian casualties where possible. It still resulted in the complete capitulation of the Iraqi regime.

What Israeli officials are advocating is levelling the entirety of Gaza “no building left standing”.

Yor problem is you don't seem to understand the difference between the Republican Guard in the open desert and fanatical Islamists in a compact city.

chrismscotland · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:52

ICDP said:
Your problem is you want to go straight to Defcon 5 despite there being plenty of less extreme military options available. I was not a fan of the Iraq war but can at least acknowledge it was done in a way the minimised civilian casualties where possible. It still resulted in the complete capitulation of the Iraqi regime.

What Israeli officials are advocating is levelling the entirety of Gaza “no building left standing”.

You might want to ask the Iraqi's if they thought it was "done in a way that minimised civilian casualties" I don't think they would agree with you

IGBT · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:54

radderfire said:
You cannot respond to an atrocity in which innocent civilians were murdered by committing another atrocity that murders more innocent civilians.

It seems to me that it is quite a major security failure by Israel. They have not managed to protect their border with sufficient personnel on the ground. They have already started bombing Gaza, and this is already killing/wounding many innocent people. You cannot bomb urban areas without killing and wounding innocent people. Whether they are attempting to target militants or not is irrelevant, it cannot be done without collateral casualties. It is a totally ineffective response, and something of a knee jerk reaction from the military, who has dented pride through its defensive failures. It will only stoke the fires of further militancy. Israel would be better to focus on correcting its defensive failures than to start bombing, which will kill more innocent civilians, and will achieve nothing.

Have you seen that building in the middle of a urban area where after a bomb there were more explosion like in series one after the other? What does this mean?

radderfire · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:54

alchal said:
I tend to agree but I can't see how isreal can handle this any different now, Hamas won't negotiate they will just rinse and repeat after they call for a truce again.

More casualties now and fewer in the long term? Or fewer now and more in the long term?

Maybe.

Israel needs to review its border security policies, it is clear that there are deficiencies and they need to address them. I was a bit shocked at what Hamas was able to do. Israel easily has the capability to defend against this level of attack, but it was not present on the ground where it was needed.

Bombing Gaza is just going to create misery and suffering to the majority of innocent people that live there and help with radicalization. It will achieve nothing. It would not address the reasons a small minority of people in Gaza turn to violence. Israel has the ability to protect its borders better and it should focus on that, there is no need to respond by killing more innocent civilians.

SpellowHouse · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:55

ICDP said:
You got that backwards. The fact this is the case should lead to a more measured approach being taken.

The fact that the statement coming out of Israel is about leaving no building standing, is enough to demonstrate the IDF plans no such restraint.

Yeah, Israel not being smart. They keep announcing their atrocities before they commit them.

Uther · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:55

IGBT said:
How can they expect having support after, and let’s not talk about the events in the last 2 or 3 days, the recent news babies and young children being shot dead, burnt and decapitated? Who in their perfect mind will support these guys after these recent events?

I think there is only one way for this.

Some people will still support them unfortunately. At least the thread has moved on a bit from 'but what about Israel!' to 'the Palestinians are innocent bystanders' now.

Twinz · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:57

radderfire said:
Israel needs to review its border security policies, it is clear that there are deficiencies and they need to address them. I was a bit shocked at what Hamas was able to do. Israel easily has the capability to defend against this level of attack, but it was not present on the ground where it was needed.

Bombing Gaza is just going to create misery and suffering to the majority of innocent people that live there and help with radicalization. It will achieve nothing. It would not address the reasons a small minority of people in Gaza turn to violence. Israel has the ability to protect its borders better and it should focus on that, there is no need to respond by killing more innocent civilians.

The problem is that people get complacent after long periods of quiet.

"Why are we wasting all these resources on a border that's clearly quiet?" "These damn war mongers in our government just want to increase the military budget to feed the industrial war complex!" "We are just intimidating those poor people."

...And so on.

Subzero85 · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:58

Never ending cycle, more aggression just breeds more resistance and hatred, we've seen that countless times in N Ireland vietnam etc

ICDP · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:59

chrismscotland said:
You might want to ask the Iraqi's if they thought it was "done in a way that minimised civilian casualties" I don't think they would agree with you

Good point well made.

radderfire · 10 Oct 2023 at 20:59

IGBT said:
Have you seen that building in the middle of a urban area where after a bomb there were more explosion like in series one after the other? What does this mean?

You tell me, are you saying it's an ammunition store??

Uther · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:00

SpellowHouse said:
Yeah, Israel not being smart. They keep announcing their atrocities before they commit them.

I'm not so sure they will flatten the place. There must be a huge amount of rage there at the moment, as each new atrocity comes to light, and I'm sure news like burning babies and decapitating kids won't help the mood.
They've told civilians to move to certain areas for safety (not sure how easy that is though, or if the hamas scum will even let them) so whilst some are obviously in a murderous mood others seem to be a bit more measured.
We'll find out soon enough I think.

bingham67 · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:01

radderfire said:
Israel needs to review its border security policies, it is clear that there are deficiencies and they need to address them. I was a bit shocked at what Hamas was able to do. Israel easily has the capability to defend against this level of attack, but it was not present on the ground where it was needed.

They didnt have to go far aswell easy attack for them sadly I feel a lot of it will be due to complacency and not expecting it.

StriderX · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:02

Rroff said:
Probably heading to Cyprus but flight of Typhoons burning it through the Med on a heading towards Israel.

Guessing to maintain cover due to the carrier group moving.

Jono8 · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:02

Uther said:
I'm not so sure they will flatten the place. There must be a huge amount of rage there at the moment, as each new atrocity comes to light, and I'm sure news like burning babies and decapitating kids won't help the mood.
They've told civilians to move to certain areas for safety (not sure how easy that is though, or if the hamas scum will even let them) so whilst some are obviously in a murderous mood others seem to be a bit more measured.
We'll find out soon enough I think.

I think it's more that they will leave no stone (building) unturned until they've killed every last member of Hamas, regardless of the collateral damage.

ICDP · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:02

Twinz said:
Yor problem is you don't seem to understand the difference between the Republican Guard in the open desert and fanatical Islamists in a compact city.

I completely understand the difference. Hence why Israel and their plans to level Gaza are not proportionate. I believe Hamas should be destroyed, I don’t believe all of Gaza needs to be destroyed to achieve that goal.

IGBT · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:03

radderfire said:
You tell me, are you saying it's an ammunition store??

Damm, I have just seen tunnels full of rockets and certainly in the middle of urban areas :cry:

Then saw an attack to a building in the middle of an urban area followed by 3 other explosions with black smoke. What do you think that was? Someone doing a toast?

Twinz · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:04

ICDP said:
I completely understand the difference. Hence why Israel and their plans to level Gaza are not proportionate. I believe Hamas should be destroyed, I don’t believe all of Gaza needs to be destroyed to achieve that goal.

That's up to Hamas and how they want to fight.

wildman · 10 Oct 2023 at 21:05

bingham67 said:
They didnt have to go far aswell easy attack for them sadly I feel a lot of it will be due to complacency and not expecting it.

which is nuts when you consdier that the Mossad is considered to be one of the best, 3rd best actually behind the CIA and RAW (India's inteligence service) inteligence outfits in the world.