Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

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Westyfield2 said:
Israel will do another six hour ceasefire tomorrow. From 10:00 to 15:00 (07:00-12:00 GMT).
Bets on whether Hamas decide to observe it this time round?
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what are the odds that israel will stop their expansion like the eu/un wants ?
will they put Palestine back on the map?
 
ak22 said:
I was quoting Dis96, I agree with you can't narrow the conflict to past few months and if you look back Israel has much worse track record.

And remember Palestinians have the right under international law to resist occupation, ethnic cleansing, colonization, aggression, and annexation



I was surprised that the olive fields have not been uprooted yet or burnt like many other Palestinian olive trees.
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And I was agreeing with pudney :-P

You need to see that the levels of violence on both sides are unacceptable. Whilst Palestine does have the right to resist occupation, it doesn't have the right to attack civilians who have suffered more than the Israeli establishment by far.
 
Dis86 said:
You need to see that the levels of violence on both sides are unacceptable. Whilst Palestine does have the right to resist occupation, it doesn't have the right to attack civilians who have suffered more than the Israeli establishment by far.
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It's absolutely wrong to attack purely civilian targets, but that doesn't mean both sides are equally culpable. The power to address the causes of this conflict rests entirely with Israel. If the Palestinians abandon violence, Israel will continue to slowly smother them, just as it has done for decades regardless of any ceasefires.

Israel won't try to reach a peaceful and just solution because the status quo actually suits it perfectly. It can take whatever land it wants and drop bombs whenever it wants because there is no internationally recognised Palestinian state, but it doesn't have to take any responsibility for the welfare of the Palestinians (or recognise their fundamental rights).
 
the way things are going, as the world gets more technologically advanced, these sorts of conflicts will become much more deadly... currently Hamas has lobbed over a few thousand rockets and killed one person... I'm sure they're not stupid - they'll have people analysing this, they'll have Arab-Israelis perhaps reporting back some ad-hoc battle damage assessment even... they'll be figuring out where the weaknesses are in the Israeli missile defence system. One day they might have access to better targeting information, rockets that are more accurate.... they might gain the ability to fit them with WMDs... if this on/off conflict carries on as it has done then eventually some big tragic event will occur - whether that's a nuclear armed Iran, Hamas getting a load of accurate rockets and fitting them with chemical weapons...

Israel really does need to sort out the West Bank settlements and actually start talking to Hamas - they're the elected leaders of the Palestinians despite being terrorists... bombing them isn't helping to secure Israel, its just backing Hamas into a corner.
 
Pudney said:
I'm referring to Palestinian and Israeli actions throughout the past few decades which ever inflate the violence and push backwards any possibility of peaceful resolution. To try to narrow this down to the past couple of months of actions is disingenuous and either naive or frankly stupid.
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Looks like some people dont want to know the truth..

at what point is it justified for ISRAEL to take MORE AND MORE Palestinian land.. and at what point should palestinian say "we have had it, we cant take it anymore" DO you seriously expect someone to stay quiet when their land is being taken...

Do I need to remind you of the ISRAELI and PALESTINIAN MAP? what it was in 1948 and what it is now? is this not enough for palestinian to finally fight and say enough is enough, they know they are weak (no thanks to israeli banning them on various things including cements and what not).. but they have had enough, if they do not do something now, the land they have will eventually go to Israel..
 
I have also been hearing of a GREATER israel land which includes part of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.. the aim for Israel is to weaken its neighbours so it can control more land.. not sure how much of it is true but seeing as violence in Syria, Egypt etc.. I wouldnt put it past Israel/USA

Just google "Greater Israel Plan".. I saw a study/report translated into English..
 
dowie said:
the way things are going, as the world gets more technologically advanced, these sorts of conflicts will become much more deadly... currently Hamas has lobbed over a few thousand rockets and killed one person... I'm sure they're not stupid - they'll have people analysing this, they'll have Arab-Israelis perhaps reporting back some ad-hoc battle damage assessment even... they'll be figuring out where the weaknesses are in the Israeli missile defence system. One day they might have access to better targeting information, rockets that are more accurate.... they might gain the ability to fit them with WMDs... if this on/off conflict carries on as it has done then eventually some big tragic event will occur - whether that's a nuclear armed Iran, Hamas getting a load of accurate rockets and fitting them with chemical weapons...

Israel really does need to sort out the West Bank settlements and actually start talking to Hamas - they're the elected leaders of the Palestinians despite being terrorists... bombing them isn't helping to secure Israel, its just backing Hamas into a corner.
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They need to sort out the settlements ASAP, just watched some stuff on YouTube from guardian and some Arabs built a extension to there house the Israelis then came and ruled it illegal and instead of knocking it down they gave it to Jewish settler extremist scum.

Just the tip of the iceberg. They need to fix up or the future wont be so rosy for them one day.
 
ilcp said:
I have also been hearing of a GREATER israel land which includes part of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.. the aim for Israel is to weaken its neighbours so it can control more land.. not sure how much of it is true but seeing as violence in Syria, Egypt etc.. I wouldnt put it past Israel/USA

Just google "Greater Israel Plan".. I saw a study/report translated into English..
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I think your talking about "Oded Yinon Plan" which follows Theodore Herzl Zioinist Vision of “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.”

Not sure if the current Israeli gorverment still believes in this plan , but they have supported the Idea or kurdish state breaking away fron iraq...
 
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http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2av86m/israeli_naval_ship_bombs_palestinian_children_on/

As one person on Reddit said:

Subtract the rhetoric, that there must be some further explanation, or that someone is lying.
It is a factual matter that four children were killed. It is a fact that they died due to an Israeli naval ship shelling them.
At best, Israeli armed forces were unable to identify the targets as children.
That makes them incompetent.
Or perhaps they deemed them collateral, however unfortunate, to some target in the area.
That makes them immoral.
At worst, they intentionally shelled a beach with no military target and possibly aimed specifically at whoever was running around, despite the targets being identifiable as children.
That makes them monsters.
There is no explanation that makes this fine, that justifies this. It would not matter if the Hamas strapped children to tanks. Use a weapon that is able to discriminate between targets better.
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Here's a picture of the incident: http://imgur.com/P5VevuW
 
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Lets say the Israeli Navy are not lying and they didn't target the children on purpose. So if the high tech weapons that IDF has cannot distinguish between children running or armed adults, how can the home made rockets of Hamass do the same.... 220 Palestine's have died (80% of them civilans) over 1500 injured. One Israeli civilian has died from rocket attack he was delivering food to IDF soilders.
 
ilcp said:
Looks like some people dont want to know the truth..

at what point is it justified for ISRAEL to take MORE AND MORE Palestinian land.. and at what point should palestinian say "we have had it, we cant take it anymore" DO you seriously expect someone to stay quiet when their land is being taken...

Do I need to remind you of the ISRAELI and PALESTINIAN MAP? what it was in 1948 and what it is now? is this not enough for palestinian to finally fight and say enough is enough, they know they are weak (no thanks to israeli banning them on various things including cements and what not).. but they have had enough, if they do not do something now, the land they have will eventually go to Israel..
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Some people learnt from history that violence on either side just makes it less likely to resolve the issue. But carry on spouting your "truth" and righteous capital letters.
 
Absolutely disgusting behaviour from Israel. Frankly, I think they should lose their right to be a sovereign state. They were given it on the grounds that they were fleeing from mass persecution, which is fair enough. Now that they are carrying out exactly the same thing on the Palestinians, the Palestinians should either be given THEIR own land (but they are already living on it), or Israel should be wiped out.

The BBC is saying that 1 Israeli has died, and 227 Palestinians. 1 to 227. That's not war, that's a ****ing disgusting and horrific massacre, added to the fact that they are INTENTIONALLY targeting children, they forfeit their right to be left alone long ago.

I've always said that I'd never fight in a war, but these Israeli ***** have made me change my mind.
 
the ceasefire will be directly related to the killing of these kids..because it was right in front of journalists and away from areas being bombed. Its made the israelis look really bad as they have no excuse as there were no real targets in the area and its being reoprted around the world as the crime it is

so they have to offer a ceasefire to show themselves as trying to help other affected civilians

its just PR after a shameful episode and should be seen as such
 
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