Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

B&W · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:12

Westyfield2 said:
Do the other side want a two state solution? IIRC Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/etc say that 'we will not rest until Israel is wiped off the map and all Jews have been killed'.

Does that justify Israel taking more land, they started it first and are continuing it with no regards to peace.

The other side has no option but to resist, they can barely take a Israeli city let alone the whole country.

Sick of this bs painting Israel as the oppressed. Sure the other side aren't angels but the way some people make it out , Israel are in danger of being destroyed another holocaust.

Our politicians are quick to jump on an mp who dares say something about Israel whilst the leadership totally ignores all the Israeli crimes.

That shows whose got the power the ability to cause a genocide.

wildman · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:16

xibinim said:
International law in that region means squat for both sides .

it means they can be tried for crimes if they circumvent the agreed protocols for warfare, something that currently is not happening. SO it would mean a great deal to the innocents that are being butchered

Westyfield2 · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:16

The second load of rockets that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) found being stored in one of their schools in Gaza… they've gone missing :rolleyes:

. http://news.sky.com/story/1306475/rockets-stored-in-gaza-school-are-missing

Westyfield2 · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:25

B&W said:
The other side has no option but to resist, they can barely take a Israeli city let alone the whole country.

Sick of this bs painting Israel as the oppressed. Sure the other side aren't angels but the way some people make it out , Israel are in danger of being destroyed another holocaust.

It's not just over in the Middle East though.

Yesterday in Austria a football game had to be stopped when people ran onto the pitch and started attacking Israeli football players. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-protesters-storm-pitch-ATTACK-players.html

Go back to last week and in Paris, Jews were being attacked. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-dark-days-1938-chilling-dispatch-Paris.html

B&W · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:48

Westyfield2 said:
It's not just over in the Middle East though.

Yesterday in Austria a football game had to be stopped when people ran onto the pitch and started attacking Israeli football players. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-protesters-storm-pitch-ATTACK-players.html

Go back to last week and in Paris, Jews were being attacked. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-dark-days-1938-chilling-dispatch-Paris.html

Does that somehow vindicate the Israeli actions in Palestine? Don't get me wrong I hate all racists, these idiots who are attacking random Jews are themselves a minority. utter fools.

It is sad we are seeing more real anti Jewish attacks but we should not concentrate on this and ignore the Palestinians or make Israel out to be victims.

I bet you'll see more politicians speak out on this then the death of Palestinians.

And that is part of the problem.

doodah · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:52

It's troubling and unsurprising to see these idiots on social media; a lot of your Jewish friends label anything anti-Israeli Government/IDF as anti-semitic and a lot of your Muslim friends post despicable incidents by the IDF that happened some 5-10 years ago but portray them as happening in this current conflict.

kedge · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:54

Leave the idiots to it, they are the ones that have the childrens bloodshed on their hands, these idiots don't know how to get along with each other and cause the suffering and death to their children.

B&W · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:55

xibinim said:
It's troubling and unsurprising to see these idiots on social media; a lot of your Jewish friends label anything anti-Israeli Government/IDF as anti-semitic and a lot of your Muslim friends post despicable incidents by the IDF that happened some 5-10 years ago but portray them as happening in this current conflict.

Ahhh the joys of not having Facebook. :cool:

Tefal · 24 Jul 2014 at 11:58

wildman said:
technically no, however their use in dense areas of civies is questionable.

Protocol I on Non-Detectable Fragments prohibits the use of any weapon the primary effect of which is to injure by fragments which are not detectable in human body by X-rays.

So I am not sure how DIME weapons would fall under that, I am sure if you have got Tungsten shrapnel in buried in you that it would show on an x-ray ?

isnt that what they're designed for though?

very small blast radius no shrapnel flying 100m down the street and wiping out a bunch of people you weren't aiming at.

just a small targeted area of destruction.

Castiel · 24 Jul 2014 at 12:08

Westyfield2 said:
Do the other side want a two state solution? IIRC Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/etc say that 'we will not rest until Israel is wiped off the map and all Jews have been killed'.

Hamas no longer call for the destruction of Israel, the Hamas leadership clearly state in their manifesto's that the Charter is a historical document no longer relevant to their continuing struggle for a Palestinian State. They support and seek a Two State Solution and are aligned with Fatah and The Palestinian Authority in attaining this.

http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives...ce-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html

RDM · 24 Jul 2014 at 12:27

xibinim said:
International law in that region means squat for both sides .

International law only matters if someone powerful cares to enforce it, which is how international law has always worked.

Tefal · 24 Jul 2014 at 12:28

RDM said:
International law only matters if someone powerful cares to enforce it, which is how international law has always worked.

international politics is the last bastion of true anarchy.

yet oddly all the "anarchists" on all the protests complain about it.

jsmoke · 24 Jul 2014 at 20:28

Gaza school shelter hit killing 15, injuring 200, how can that happen, was it a targeted attack against Hamas, was it a mistake or collateral damage, I don't get it, but then I have not much idea about military operations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526

ak22 · 24 Jul 2014 at 21:00

jsmoke said:
Gaza school shelter hit killing 15, injuring 200, how can that happen, was it a targeted attack against Hamas, was it a mistake or collateral damage, I don't get it, but then I have not much idea about military operations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526

Seeing that Israel have kept the most density populated area on earth (Gaza) under land air & sea blocked since 2007, and Killed over 755 palestinians 125 of them children in the past two weeks.

I would say they don't give ****.

Danthus · 24 Jul 2014 at 21:07

Castiel said:
Hamas no longer call for the destruction of Israel, the Hamas leadership clearly state in their manifesto's that the Charter is a historical document no longer relevant to their continuing struggle for a Palestinian State. They support and seek a Two State Solution and are aligned with Fatah and The Palestinian Authority in attaining this.

http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives...ce-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html

Israel will never agree to a two state solution.

There is more chance of me and you getting jiggy with Kylie Minogue and her sister.

Castiel · 24 Jul 2014 at 21:20

OldCoals said:
Israel will never agree to a two state solution.

There is more chance of me and you getting jiggy with Kylie Minogue and her sister.

Doesn't matter as I wasn't on about what Israel would or wouldn't do, just addressing what someone stated about what Hamas want.

And as far as the Minogue sisters, if I was in a position that they were even remotely interested, then there are better options available...

Westyfield2 · 24 Jul 2014 at 23:49

Castiel said:
Hamas no longer call for the destruction of Israel, the Hamas leadership clearly state in their manifesto's that the Charter is a historical document no longer relevant to their continuing struggle for a Palestinian State. They support and seek a Two State Solution and are aligned with Fatah and The Palestinian Authority in attaining this.

http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives...ce-of-nonviolent-palestinian-resistance-.html

Interesting link

. On the BBC News at 6PM this evening though they still quoted the charter and were saying that Hamas seek the destruction of the Israeli state.

Westyfield2 · 24 Jul 2014 at 23:57

Firstly, for the avoidance of doubt, just to state that I believe Israel is using excessive force and needs to calm down a bit.

But... everyone knows that Israel always over-reacts. It's the same with Russia, whatever happens to them you can guarantee that their response will be disproportionate.

So... you steer clear and don't provoke them.

"Don't poke the bear".

jsmoke said:
Gaza school shelter hit killing 15, injuring 200, how can that happen, was it a targeted attack against Hamas, was it a mistake or collateral damage, I don't get it, but then I have not much idea about military operations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526

Given that Hamas rockets have been found at two UN schools in Gaza, I'd bet that Israel will be taking the "legitimate military target" line.

The problem though is that all the Hamas bigwigs are hiding down in bunkers like Bugs Bunny, and aren't affected by the missile strikes. And Hamas have left the civilians up on the surface to face Israel's wrath.

Danthus · 25 Jul 2014 at 00:01

The civilians are suffering because of the Israeli blockade.

Craterloads · 25 Jul 2014 at 00:03

Westyfield2 said:
So... you steer clear and don't provoke them.

"Don't poke the bear".

It's not like the Palestinians are just walking up to the bear randomly and poking it :rolleyes:

It's more like a bear making it's way to a bee hive, breaking it open, eating all its honey and the bee's futilely stinging the bear. The bees then forced to move farther infield make another hive, the bear shows up again... rinse and repeat.

Basically the bear need tranquilising.