It looks like the 'real' /affordable RDNA3 + next gen NV desktop launch won't launch until September. Thoughts?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think the thing to remember about 1080p cards, is that 8GB N33 GPUs can already comfortably deliver 60 FPS minimums, as these cards can run Cyberpunk 2077 (impressive in itself for a low end mobile GPU)...

So, there's little reason to increase the spec, for what is supposed to be the lowest tier GPU die.

The Navi33 die was (predominantly) intended for mobile devices, as discussed here, back in August 2022:

AMD's RDNA 3 Graphics

3rd time's the charm?

www.angstronomics.com

It's 6nm which makes it cheaper and easier to mass produce.

I don't agree as someone who has an RTX3060TI and knows plenty of people with an RX6600/RX6600XT. Many game at qHD because qHD displays are dirt cheap. I game at qHD too.

I also have used the RTX3060TI,RX5600XT,RX5700XT and RX6600XT myself(only have the RTX3060TI and RX5600XT now).8GB is starting to be an issue,even in some games at 1080p. It definitely is already an issue if you mod games @KompuKare has also mentioned this.

Navi 23 was made for mobile too like Navi 24.But AMD is going to use Navi 33 against the RTX4060. The RTX4070 was roughly RTX3080 level performance. The RTX4060TI is probably around RTX3070 to RTX3070TI level performance,and the RTX4060 is probably between RTX3060TI to RTX3070 level performance.

The reality is if AMD intends to sell the RX7600XT at around £300ish,it will be fighting against an RTX4060 with similar rasterised performance,much better RT performance and better "software" features.

So it does need 12GB to 16GB to differentiate itself,and more importantly that VRAM will help over time.

If they want to have it only as an 8GB card it needs to be under £300. If not you can get an RX6700XT 12GB for under £350 right now.

Edit!

Also HUB showed the 8GB cards in Hogwarts Legacy have severe texture streaming problems.

So those FPS numbers don't take into account that 8GB cards seem to be loading worse quality textures.

So for a few extra USD AMD could add that extra VRAM,and end up showing up the RTX4060 series for the cash grabs they are. Imagine if an RTX4060TI starts losing to a "slower" RX7600XT 16GB? OTH,if they want to price high with low specs,they will end up making the RTX4060 look better.

It's not Rocket Science.

 

[Calin Banc]

I think your argument falls apart when you look at the RTX 3060 TI, 3070 + TI variant minimums, assuming you are drawing attention to the 8GB VRAM of some cards.

Even the RTX 2080 8GB gets 59 FPS 1% lows.

RT performance on N33 is going to be trash regardless (even though it's improved compared to N22 GPUs).

No, in this case I was referring just to the performance alone, but chances are high 8gb will be problematic rather sooner than later and to pay for something new, now, knowing that...

That is true yes.

Its not that i think they don't care at all, i think they have a list of priorities and dGPU marketshare is right at the bottom, right now its stuffing their IP in to more phones and cars, getting other people to see the benefits of riding the Steam Deck hype train, Asus are on board.

And bludgeoning Nvidia and Intel combined out of low and lower mid tier gaming laptop's with thier new RDNA3 APU's

We know that, we've been talking about that and is what basically Nvidia does and which you hate - taking care of themselves first, profit first, consumer... last. So "defending" AMD practices means defending Nvidia practices. Them first, us last. As a consumer, that makes sense to you? Why get behind AMD and not Nvidia as well? But again, why not get behind us, consumers?

However, if there is still production free at TSMC, makes sense to book that to sell low margins GPUs to at least take back market share. But, I guess their inventory is still significant for RDNA2.

 

[g67575]

Cards above 8GB aren't going to be cheap I'm afraid...

They are in a different class /tier of graphics card.

For one thing, Navi33 uses a 128bit memory bus, you aren't going to see a large gain in performance, even if there was a 16GB model.

 

[KompuKare]

Watching that high-street vendor of used parts, it seems that people are getting wise to VRAM. It was the start of a trend, but is quite obvious now: 12GB 67x0 and 16GB 6800/XT/6900 are now more expensive (used) than similar Nvidia cards.

Plain 6800 is about £450 vs the similar performing (when it doesn't run out of VRAM) 3070 is more like £370.
6800 XT more like £500 while the slightly faster (same caveat about VRAM as above) is about £530.

(Yes, I know crazy prices for used kit which has probably been mined on, but the important thing is the relative prices.)

Haven't looked at the auction sites, but historically Nvidia cards hold their value better.

Looks like AMD's new range will be similarly unexisting as Nvidia's. Only really bringing improved perf/watt.

Naturally it is all rather strange that perf/watt was nowhere to be seen when RDNA2 had the perf/watt crown, but now that the corwn back in the green camp it is suddenly a big deal! How predicable!

Rumours of PS5 Pro are getting stronger, wonder what they are getting? If it includes 24GB then PC gamers better be prepared to pay big (£1,500+?!) just to be able to play those games!

 

[g67575]

If they want to have it only as an 8GB card it needs to be under £300. If not you can get an RX6700XT 12GB for under £350 right now.

Yes, it wouldn't be worth it otherwise. They are cheap GPUs to produce, no reason why not.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes, it wouldn't be worth it otherwise.

The thing is adding a bit of extra GDDR6 now,would be such as easy way to make the RTX4060 look a bit of a damp squib.

Can you imagine an RX7600XT having more VRAM than an £800 Nvidia RTX4070TI??

Cards above 8GB aren't going to be cheap I'm afraid...

They are in a different class /tier of graphics card.

For one thing, Navi33 uses a 128bit memory bus, you aren't going to see a large gain in performance, even if there was a 16GB model.

GDDR6 prices have collapsed. Also the RTX3060 now is showing better performance in a number of games than higher end models,and Nvidia can sell them for £320 profitably on a 192 bit memory bus.

GDDR6 high pricing only happened during the pandemic. It's Nvidia marketing which has been trying to spin it.

Plus the reality again is marketing perception too. It only needs some scenarios where an RX7600XT thrashes an 8GB RTX4060 to really cause some problems for Nvidia.

So if AMD wants to price it low,8GB is fine. But if they want to price it high it needs to have more.

It happened to the GTX960 2GB. Everyone said 4GB was useless on a GTX960 but it was proven to be wrong as the 4GB model actually consistently had better 1% lows. They had to launch it because the R9 380 4GB came out.

Watching that high-street vendor of used parts, it seems that people are getting wise to VRAM. It was the start of a trend, but is quite obvious now: 12GB 67x0 and 16GB 6800/XT/6900 are now more expensive (used) than similar Nvidia cards.

Plain 6800 is about £450 vs the similar performing (when it doesn't run out of VRAM) 3070 is more like £370.
6800 XT more like £500 while the slightly faster (same caveat about VRAM as above) is about £530.

(Yes, I know crazy prices for used kit which has probably been mined on, but the important thing is the relative prices.)

Haven't looked at the auction sites, but historically Nvidia cards hold their value better.

Looks like AMD's new range will be similarly unexisting as Nvidia's. Only really bringing improved perf/watt.

Naturally it is all rather strange that perf/watt was nowhere to be seen when RDNA2 had the perf/watt crown, but now that the corwn back in the green camp it is suddenly a big deal! How predicable!

Rumours of PS5 Pro are getting stronger, wonder what they are getting? If it includes 24GB then PC gamers better be prepared to pay big (£1,500+?!) just to be able to play those games!

Exactly. AMD are foolish if they intend to price the RX7600XT at £300+ if they don't add more VRAM.

If the RX7600XT is closer to £250 then it makes more sense as an 8GB card,as the RTX4050 is apparently 6GB.

 

[g67575]

People will buy a Navi32 GPU if they want more VRAM. Most can afford this tier comfortably.
Navi23 + Navi33 is the filthy casual tier

Or, if you have a 1080p 60hz monitor (still super common, and perfectly fine).

 

[humbug]

No, in this case I was referring just to the performance alone, but chances are high 8gb will be problematic rather sooner than later and to pay for something new, now, knowing that...

We know that, we've been talking about that and is what basically Nvidia does and which you hate - taking care of themselves first, profit first, consumer... last. So "defending" AMD practices means defending Nvidia practices. Them first, us last. As a consumer, that makes sense to you? Why get behind AMD and not Nvidia as well? But again, why not get behind us, consumers?

However, if there is still production free at TSMC, makes sense to book that to sell low margins GPUs to at least take back market share. But, I guess their inventory is still significant for RDNA2.

Nvidia being a for profit company is not what i hate, i don't even hate them for charging a 74% GPU premium for DLSS 3, they can get away with it, i would do exactly the same if my customer base was dumb enough to suck it up.

That's really the point, Nvidia do that and tech journalists turn their fury at AMD for not doing something about it. What wrong with you people?

 

[g67575]

They want the big margins on Navi32 and Navi31 GPUs.

Navi33 is the cheap, mass production die, banging in a load of extra VRAM would confuse the whole series lineup.
I feel we are going round in circles unfortunately:

The Magic Roundabout - Intro Theme Tune Animated Titles

Year: 1965-78No. of episodes: 441Composer: Alain Legrand

www.youtube.com

But it's still very profitable for mobile devices.

 

[humbug]

Navi 33 is 128Bit.

Are there 4GB Memory IC's to make it a 16GB GPU?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

They want the big margins on Navi32 and Navi31 GPUs.

Navi33 is the mass production die, banging in a load of extra VRAM would confuse the whole series lineup.
I feel we are going round incircles unfortunately:

The Magic Roundabout - Intro Theme Tune Animated Titles

Year: 1965-78No. of episodes: 441Composer: Alain Legrand

www.youtube.com

Apart from the fact it would make the line-up consistent:
1.)RX7900XTX 24GB=RTX4080 16GB
2.)RX7900XT 20GB=RTX4070TI 12GB
3.)RX7800XT 16GB=RTX4070 12GB
4.)RX7700XT 16GB=RTX4060TI 8GB
5.)RX7600XT 16GB=RTX4060 8GB
6.)RX7600 8GB=RTX4050 6GB

But by going by the leak some are defending here:
3.)RX7800XT 16GB=RTX4070 12GB
4.)RX7700XT(Navi 33) 8GB =RTX4060TI 8GB
5.)RX7600XT(Navi 33) 8GB =RTX4060 8GB
6.)RX7600(Navi 33) 8GB=RTX4050 6GB

The leak says that the RX7700XT ROCm entry indicates its Navi 33 based.

So again explain to me,how is AMD going to compete with Nvidia if it intends to upsell Navi 33?

So even if Navi 33 as the RX7600XT at £300+ how is going to be competitive against the RTX4060?

That means Navi 33 will have to be sold at under £300 if it is an 8GB card.

But apparently selling Navi 33 "too cheap" is bad.

So people can't expect Navi 33 to be sold for over £300 if it doesn't have more VRAM. If not it is a £250 card at best.

 

[g67575]

I think there's lots of money to be made out of Navi32 GPUs, can't see why they'd limit it to just the RX 7800 XT.

Navi33 for the RX 7700 series cards makes no sense at all.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I think there's lots of money to be made out of Navi32 GPUs, can't see why they'd limit it to just the RX 7800 XT.

Navi33 for the RX 7700 series cards makes no sense at all.

The ROCm software leak indicated it was.

Considering you can get an RX6650XT 8GB for £225 a few days ago,it has to be sub £300 at best as an 8GB card.

Anymore than £300 and its DOA like the junk RTX4060 8GB.

 

[g67575]

Navi33 cards will be priced like Navi23 cards (at their current price), but will have approx. 20% higher performance...

They will very likely be priced more competitively than the Nvidia equivalent.

 

[humbug]

Apart from the fact it would make the line-up consistent:
1.)RX7900XTX 24GB=RTX4080 16GB
2.)RX7900XT 20GB=RTX4070TI 12GB
3.)RX7800XT 16GB=RTX4070 12GB
4.)RX7700XT 16GB=RTX4060TI 8GB
5.)RX7600XT 16GB=RTX4060 8GB
6.)RX7600 8GB=RTX4050 6GB

But by going by the leak some are defending here:
3.)RX7800XT 16GB=RTX4070 12GB
4.)RX7700XT(Navi 33) 8GB =RTX4060TI 8GB
5.)RX7600XT(Navi 33) 8GB =RTX4060 8GB
6.)RX7600(Navi 33) 8GB=RTX4050 6GB

The leak says that the RX7700XT ROCm entry indicates its Navi 33 based.

So again explain to me,how is AMD going to compete with Nvidia if it intends to upsell Navi 33?

So even if Navi 33 as the RX7600XT at £300+ how is going to be competitive against the RTX4060?

That means Navi 33 will have to be sold at under £300 if it is an 8GB card.

But apparently selling Navi 33 "too cheap" is bad.

So people can't expect Navi 33 to be sold for over £300 if it doesn't have more VRAM. If not it is a £250 card at best.

7700XT 8GB?

 

[KompuKare]

Looks like AMD's new range will be similarly unexisting as Nvidia's. Only really bringing improved perf/watt.

Ah, that was meant to be unexciting, but so far AMD's lineup is mainly un-existing so my typo might have been Freudian!

 

[g67575]

I guess people are getting confused by the 7700S mobile GPU.

Expert branding from AMD here.

 

[Joxeon]

Cards above 8GB aren't going to be cheap I'm afraid...

A770 says hi.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I guess people are getting confused by the 7700S mobile GPU.

Expert branding from AMD here.

The ROCm leak said RX7700XT, and it was apparently an official contribution. I hope it was a typo.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A770 says hi.

So does the RTX3060 and RX6700XT.