I'm not denying he's special, just saying he was/is probably the most supported by a manufacturer before he started his F1 career. This is why he's come good from the beginning already knowing his way around the cars etc. If only he could become a little less impetuous and maybe bide his time he'd be a multi wdc by now....
Italian Grand Prix 2010, Monza Circuit - Race 14/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Yeh that's fair, I wouldn't call what Hamilton did in his first year against Alonso impressive though.....
.... It was much more than that! xD
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Mar 2005
- Posts
- 19,486
- Location
- LU7
I'm the same. I'm not a Lewis Hamilton fan but I'll readily admit he is one of the best of the current group of drivers, if not the best. If he doesn't become at least a two time world champion by the end of his career I'll be shocked. He's more than good enough to become a triple world champion I think. Whether McLaren can give him a car to do so, or whether or not other teams make cars better than McLaren is another thing so he may not get as far as his talent can take him.
Quite a few people expected Jenson to be blown to pieces by Lewis. What's the point in leaving a team you've just won a title with to go to a team where another British driver is the darling of the team people wondered. Yes Jenson is behind Lewis in the points but not by the massive margin a lot of people expected.
If somebody offered me a seat in F1 that was guaranteed to get me within 1 win of the championship leader with 5 races to go i'd jump at the chance.
When you bear in mind that your previous team's lead driver is over 70 points adrift from the reader, i'd be pretty sure i'd made the right move.
2nd to lewis hamilton or not.
When you bear in mind that your previous team's lead driver is over 70 points adrift from the reader, i'd be pretty sure i'd made the right move.
2nd to lewis hamilton or not.
Hamilton hasnt been barged out of a race by Vettel yet , if that hadnt happened in Spa, Button WOULD be leading Hamilton
Everyone knows LH is the darling of McLaren, thats why imo Button needs commending for fighting so farely (and given spa result) is basically level with LH in a team so heavily based around the younger driver
Being World Champion - and knowing you are going into a team as the effective No2 though, its a totally different proposition
As previously stated, its still a car JB had to get used to (with limitied testing) in a new team he has to get used to when the other driver was already up and running
According to Sam Michael from Williams, due to all the changes this coming winter (both aero, tires etc) next year will be much more of a clean slate - it will be much more interesting to see what happens then - especially if JB can put real title pressure on LH in a car much more suited to the latter
Last edited:
This is what im saying
Even though JB was moving to a No 2. Position, its still been roundabout the best move he could make. The only other move that would take him any closer to the title was to be the #1 driver at red bull, which was never in a million years going to happen or the #1 driver at Mclaren, but again with Lewis being the prodical son, that was never going to happen either.
I think he made the best move he possibly could.
Even though JB was moving to a No 2. Position, its still been roundabout the best move he could make. The only other move that would take him any closer to the title was to be the #1 driver at red bull, which was never in a million years going to happen or the #1 driver at Mclaren, but again with Lewis being the prodical son, that was never going to happen either.
I think he made the best move he possibly could.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Mar 2005
- Posts
- 19,486
- Location
- LU7
I would have thought that next year's McLaren would suit Jenson more as he's been involved with the team from the start of their 2011 car design so he can have some input. Any team with two world champions driving for it would be stupid not to try and get the car to suit both drivers, somehow.
I also wonder if Jenson's more calm and thoughtful driving style as well as his longer career in F1 might give him the edge in a rule change year.
True but he WAS barged off by the other RB in Oz albeit he did continue I think but lost a lot of ground. Using "what ifs"/hypthothetical situatioans can become long winded for argument purposes tbh
.To be fair to Hamilton, JB has lucked into some wins this season due to circumstances on track and on other occasions by making superior choices (as was once again shown in Monza).
But when it comes to raw driving pace, I still believe Hamilton is far superior to JB.
And also, fully appreciate that Hamilton is the "darling of Mclaren", but at the same time when he arrived into Mclaren F1 team, he was wet behind the ears compared to his team mate Alonso who is a double world champ, has many years experience of driving an F1 car and has many wins under his belt...
Hamilton didnt even have an F1 race to his name and by the end of that season finished ahead of the double world champion. Darling of Mclaren or not, that kind of performance is something.
Last edited:
When has LH had a dnf from Webber this season (where it was clearly Webber's fault)
Not what if - its fact
JB had the BALLS to make a choice which LH (or anyone else) wouldnt have done until after someone else tried it - thats clear judgement and making it work, not "luck"
Of course, should "superior choices" not count or something?
F1 has never just been about raw pace - you have to LEARN to manage the car, something LH still neeeds to do on occasion
LH had also had vast fortunes spent on his career by McLaren before F1 - even Alonso had a challange with the internal competition
That makes JB better than Alonso.....
I totally agree
I just hope that in the next 5 races, JB can continue his recent performances and really threaten LH - otherwise McLaren may still base the 2011 car around the previous year's best driver (and who knows maybe world champ) to the detriment of JB (it wouldnt be the first time after all)
Last edited:
What I am stating is that Hamilton has also been punted off the track. And the point I was trying to make is that we can make statements such as "Massa hadn't screwed his pitstop in Singapore 2008 he would be WDC, or if it rained 5 minutes later that it did in Brazil 2008, Timmo would not have sucumbed to Hamilton or if X didnt hit Y, or if A pitted earlier than B" but we just cant make those comparisons because everything that happens in F1 is part of the game.
Hamilton finished 6th in that race, and was behind Massa before he got punted off. "If" he wasnt punted off, he "would've" finished at least 3rd or above. But again. All conjecture and hypothetical.
Frank said:
You misinterpreted my comments and took them out of context. I was very careful to separate BOTH comments and you combined them into one. Please read my post carefully.
Cavallino said:
Frank said:Of course, should "superior choices" not count or something?
F1 has never just been about raw pace - you have to LEARN to manage the car, something LH still neeeds to do on occasion
Once again, please read my post.
I didnt say that F1 was prurely about pure pace! I simply said that when it comes to racing skill/pace LH beats JB hands down. But as I mentioned above! Button has won races because he has made some superior decisions! And I fully agree that driving skill is just part of it, albeit a considerable part.
Frank said:LH had also had vast fortunes spent on his career by McLaren before F1 - even Alonso had a challange with the internal competition
That makes JB better than Alonso.....
Yes but that still doesnt change the fact that before 2007, Hamilton had not raced an F1 car (at least not in anger).
He moved up into the Formula 1 team at Mclaren, alongside another driver who for all intents and purposes was "the Schumacher" of the field (since MS left in 06). And more importantly had far more experience driving F1 cars than Hamilton ever did.
8 months on and he finishes ahead of Alonso in the championship and 1 point off the leader. In his first year of driving an F1 car, alongside probably the greatest driver on the grid at that time. Those are stats never achieved by any other new/young driver.
I cant believe I'm defending Hamilton. He is all things evil to Ferrari
Last edited:
I should hope so, given your previous expectation that Button would be annihilated has proven to be some way off the mark....
To be fair JRS, I think a lot of people expected Hamilton to annihilate Button, myself included!
Do you actually mean "annihilate", or merely "beat"?
You see, "annihilate" is Emmo Fittipaldi beating team-mate Dave Walker in '72 - Emmo getting 5 wins and 61 points, Dave getting no wins and not a single point, in one of the best F1 cars relative to the competition ever to grace the planet. Or Ayrton Senna up against Johnny Dumfries (i.e. John Crichton-Stuart, 7th Marquess of Bute) in '86 - 8 podiums inc. 2 wins and 55 points for Ayrton, 2 points finishes and 3 points for the Earl of Dumfries. Oh, and Ayrton versus Michael Andretti in '93, and Mansell versus Coulthard in '94 (I 'm only half-joking here - Mansell competed in half as many races, and scored just 1 point less IIRC), and....
....eh, screw it. I can go on if you really want, but I'm pretty sure I already made my point. Hamilton was never going to "annihilate" Button. It was always possible (in fact, more than possible) that he'd beat him. And of course, there's still a chance that the positions could go tit-over-backside and see Button finishing above Hamilton. Unlikely, with the way the table stands, but possible.
"Annihilate" and "beat" are two entirely separate concepts. And anyone who seriously thought that Button would be annihilated by Hamilton in 2010 obviously wasn't paying quite as much attention as they thought they were, in my opinion.
Last edited:
LH hasnt been punted off this season<<<<<< take note for a 2nd/3rd time
He has forced a situation where he was always going to lose at Monza, but Massa didnt punt him off IN ANY WAY COMPARABLE to Button/Vettel in Spa
you are obviously being dim on purpose- Drivers make mistakes all the time, its one of htose things. Another leading driver taking out a championship contender doesnt happen as frequently, and given the position and stage of the race JB was in during Spa, its fair to say a LARGE number of points were lost through no mechanical fault / HIS driving error - thats the point you consistantly miss
Im only comparing how well JB is doing in a new team/cae to a driver well embedded with that team thought to be amongst the best if not THE best driver in F1, you are spouting stuff about previous seasons.....which has no relevance at all
Even in the event of rain (unless its a monsoon straight away) these external forces can and should be managed by the driver (rain should really be no different than a heavier wind blowing at one point on the circuit), but MW in Germany and JB in Spa had no chance at managing the situation Vettel put them into - MW was just "lucky" he still got a 3rd place
Sigh...
"And for the 2nd or 3rd time"
It wasnt a DNF but he lost a lot of positions which could have seen him finished 3rd or 2nd (again as I said previously!).
Massa
Once again you didnt read my posts. Accuse me of being "dim" when everything I have stated is factually correct. I didnt resort to labelling you in anyway or call you names, and more importantly do not need to resort to such childish name calling antics to make my point. As such I shall no longer continue this line of conversation with you.
Last edited:
Ah well I just used the word "annihilate" since it was used by you (or sunama?) in the previous post!
But to be totally honest with you? Before the beginning of the season I would have probably have been one of the same people who would use the same word to describe what Hamilton would do to Button this season. But I have stated openly since then that I am totally suprised and gobsmacked that the reality is totally opposite, and hold my hands up that Button is socking it to Hamilton.
Last edited:
The weird thing is he doesn't **** Hamilton off for being a playboy who goes missing with the thick girlfriend during the season. Perhaps if hamilton was more focused he wouyld be leading the championship by quite a margin now
Then again Hamilton just isn't that bright, as clearly demonstrated by the thick bint he's been shagging for so long. Only a dumbass could listen to that women for more than 5 minutes. It's not like he would struggle for women, yet he has to pick the most vacant one there is. I'm sure DC only likes to interview her because he keeps showing the world how truely thick she is.
The weird thing is he doesn't **** Hamilton off for being a playboy who goes missing with the thick girlfriend during the season. Perhaps if hamilton was more focused he wouyld be leading the championship by quite a margin now
Then again Hamilton just isn't that bright, as clearly demonstrated by the thick bint he's been shagging for so long. Only a dumbass could listen to that women for more than 5 minutes. It's not like he would struggle for women, yet he has to pick the most vacant one there is. I'm sure DC only likes to interview her because he keeps showing the world how truely thick she is.
This made me chuckle dj22.
Not sure how popular you are going to be with our female members though
Last edited: