Associate
Didn't Hamilton beat alonso when he was at mclaren or am I wrong?
Italian Grand Prix 2011, Monza Circuit - Race 13/19
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Didn't Hamilton beat alonso when he was at mclaren or am I wrong?
They both finished on 109 points whilst Kimi took the title with 110 points, having been behind both of them in the standings before the race started IIRC.
Not exactly McLaren's finest moment.
Alonso has been outscored by Hamilton at McLaren? Posted above they were level...
Anyway Hamilton's problems as I see it are that Button has got him beat with the mindgames at the moment. Pre Monza he was saying he needed to up his game to beat Button. Another interview and he's saying he's just got to finish, that's because Button usually brings the car home, another DNF for Hamilton and he's slipping behind his team mate pretty badly. Because of this, during the race he is conservative at first corner, watching Schuey on restart and conservative racing him because he's scared of a DNF or perhaps another stewards warning which would probably result in a penalty handing more points to Button. Net result is that for the first time I can remember Hamilton fails to take a few chances he has to overtake Schuey and then watches as his team mate takes him AND Schuey within a lap. Ultimately that was the worst performance I can remember from Hamilton during a race and his team mate beat him whichever way you look at it. Net result, he's behind his team mate so far this season, in a car that looks like it will struggle to win more races unless the race is wet, and his teammate seems to have the edge on him in wet conditions too. With Button tending to bring the car home more often than not, Hamilton seems resigned to having to play safe, and it was his downfall today. On the flip side, as he's already managed to alienate the stewards a few times, if he's ultra aggressive he could get a penalty of perhaps a 10 place grid drop, and whilst his team mate hasn't been the greatest starter this season, he's overtaken the most people and that will probably result in hamilton slipping further behind. As I said above, if Hamilton loses to Button this season, his reputation will almost certainly be finished as the perception is Button isn't as good as him. His reputation has been built on this never been beaten by a teammate, and as he has only driven for McLaren, and Button is in "only" his second season with the team that reputation would be in tatters. The guy is running scared...
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Soldato
No. They finished tied on points. Hamilton got a higher championship positions based on 2nd places IIRC.
Raikkonen outscored the pair of them by 1 point.
sometimes i wonder is sunama only comes here to troll or wether he genuinely believes what he says...
ill consider your serious for a moment and what is in bold can often be true but not always...
now when we take into acount the underlined bit its no suprise when massa and webber arent allowed to compete with there teammate , we all saw what happened last year when webber was given half a chance.... hes pretty much the best of the rest and he still gave vettel a run for his money to me with devalues vettel quite a lot maybe hes about as good as button but i wouldnt class vettel as the absolute best package
Ferrari will always favour Alonso although I agree Massa hasn't been the same driver since his Hungary accident. Seems to be well liked in Maranello though.
I still suspect Red bull will or would favour Vettel over Webber. I have my suspicions Horner re-signed Webber as he looked at who else was available and decided no one better was. Mark really hasn't challenged this season and the main problem is Alonso, Webber and the McLarens haven't been able to present a consistent challenge. When Vettel doesn't win there isn't one person taking the maximum points it's someone in 3rd or 4th position (in the championship) who wins, not the person in second to make major in-roads into his lead.
Rumour from the BBC site that Mclaren want JB to drive for them until he retires, maybe even a 4-5 year deal. On current form I'd agree with that!
I still suspect Red bull will or would favour Vettel over Webber. I have my suspicions Horner re-signed Webber as he looked at who else was available and decided no one better was. Mark really hasn't challenged this season and the main problem is Alonso, Webber and the McLarens haven't been able to present a consistent challenge. When Vettel doesn't win there isn't one person taking the maximum points it's someone in 3rd or 4th position (in the championship) who wins, not the person in second to make major in-roads into his lead.
Rumour from the BBC site that Mclaren want JB to drive for them until he retires, maybe even a 4-5 year deal. On current form I'd agree with that!
Soldato
Lets face it.. Vettel is flying.
He IS going to win the WDC this year.
You don't win 2 consecutive WDC by being crap or lucky.
As much as it pains me.. I dof my cap to him. Well done RBR as well.. WTF has happened to Webber ?
He IS going to win the WDC this year.
You don't win 2 consecutive WDC by being crap or lucky.
As much as it pains me.. I dof my cap to him. Well done RBR as well.. WTF has happened to Webber ?
wonders if Newey based cars have won more championships than everyone else put together (since his Williams days)
He would have probably won more if RB were a larger team when he joined - it probably took him a year or two to get the aero team around him at RB to produce the kind of car required to win a WDC
He would have probably won more if RB were a larger team when he joined - it probably took him a year or two to get the aero team around him at RB to produce the kind of car required to win a WDC
Man of Honour
I am a big Hamilton fan, and a massive admirer of his driving - but I totally agree with this. Button has got Hamilton into a very shaky position at the moment. It's not the first time it's happened in F1 of course - we've seen plenty of good drivers "choke" in various circumstances (Button himself pre-Brazil 09 was choking pretty badly as the Brawn lost it's edge)
Pressure does funny things to people.
All year we've seen a relaxed Button, chatting and joking naturally through interviews, putting in the results, and telling the media that as far as he's concerned, he is The Man at McLaren.
What have we seen from Hamilton? Silly collisions, overdriving, underdriving, meetings with the stewards, quiet withdrawn interviews, emotional outbursts in interviews, tears in interviews.
Button is getting to him, that much is very obvious.
Yet there are also rumours they won't pay him what he thinks he's worth or can afford to pay him at all. All is rumour. They would be stupid to let him go but they clearly don't want him on Lewis wages.
I don't believe Button has Lewis running scared. I believe Hamilton is just irritated with having another year where he cannot go for the title. Over compensating.
Lets be honest Jenson has had far more years of experience living with mediocrity in equipment.
Lewis knows if Mclaren gave him a car with the advantage red bull currently have he would beat Jenson. 3/4's of the season he would outqualify him and that's harder for JB to turn around and beat him on the track. Also wheel to wheel Hamilton beats him 9 times out of 10.
Yes Lewis is having a poor year and you could argue all day long about how and where points have been lost and whose fault it was but as much as I like Jenson if I had to lose one you would cut Jenson.
You just know when they have a genuine challenger Lewis will beat him as hes able to extract more from the car.
Really? He's not extracted more from the car this year though has he? Outqualified Button but certainly not outraced him. In Monza Button outfought, out raced and outthought Hamilton. It doesn't matter if he burnt his tyres out fighting Schuey. Jenson came from behind Lewis, overtook him and another car and made Lewis look fairly ordinary. At this moment in time, with the same equipment, the same number of retirements Jenson is ahead on points. And why would you cut Jenson? He's more media friendly, more approachable and probably easier to deal with on a day to day basis. He has won as many WDC's as Hamilton...
Soldato
Thank god for Button\Hamilton and Schui or it would have been the most boring race ever.
Man of Honour
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A lot of the races would be boring without Hami
Funny thing is RB are quite far ahead at the moment, but are getting very little TV time because of much more interesting stuff happening behind them
True, like they had to quickly cut-back to show Vettel crossing the finish line lolFunny thing is RB are quite far ahead at the moment, but are getting very little TV time because of much more interesting stuff happening behind them
A lot of it's mind games but Hamilton is the one losing them at the moment, he seems pretty broken in post race interviews and if there was a drive available for another competitive team I'd expect Hamilton to jump ship.
There may well be more going on in that team than we can see, Button appears well liked, he's got his feet well under the table and perhaps Hamilton's just got second child syndrome (not as much attention and love coming his way).
I doubt he'll go anywhere but if he did he wouldn't be the first top driver to leave the sport or go to a lower ranked team to get out of what he sees as a bad situation.
Associate
my opinions of the mclaren team this race has changed, whereas before i liked hamiltons aggressive driving style and his obvious passion to each race , but this race he did seem a little tame and in the post race interview you could tell there was things he wanted to say but bit his tounge somewhat, whereas Button was great, he knew when to hold back and preserve his tyres and when was the best oppertunity to push and go for the over take of Schumacher and his listening to him post race seemed a lot more upbeat not oly for a great race for himself but about the team also. I kind of feel hamilton is not 100% happy in the team
Soldato
It's certainly not all the car.
Look at what he did at Torro Rosso, and BMW as a third driver