Italian Grand Prix 2013, Monza - Race 12/19

I've a better suggestion.

Tell Horner and Newey, that Seb has to spend the rest of the season driving around on Intermediate and Wet Tyres.

Hang on.. he'd still probably win :p
 
We are still trying to convince the FIA that some form of wacky races would be good for 2014. My personal preference is 20ft suspension lift for overtakes!
 
al4x said:
Only good bit of the race was 'But Gro Per'
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There was also a BUT RAI PER at one point, but people don't seem to enjoy that quite as much. Which makes sense, I suppose.

A boring race, apart from a couple of good charges through the field and that pass from Alonso. Good showings from Massa and Hulk. Vettel continues to be obnoxious both on and off the track. He needs to suffer some kind of disastrous accident that will prevent him from winning races - a minor sprain of his waggling finger should suffice.

I suppose the big question now is if Raikkonen will really go back to Ferrari, but I just can't see it happening. Alonso doesn't want to race with him, and Ferrari ****ed Raikkonen off when they paid him off early to get Alonso in. Hacking off both your drivers as an engine change comes in is not the wisest move. I can see Massa being dropped for Hulkenberg if Sirotkin gets his superlicence, though.
 
Sparky-F1 said:
I dont think, even Lewis with all his talent could stick this years McLaren on the top step.
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Agreed.
Vettel/RBR are virtually unbeatable...even by Alonso (who is the master at managing his race speed), in a Ferrari which is faster than the McLaren.

McL have defintely lost out by not having a top-line driver, but this is completely of their making. If they show ambition and "balls", they can definitely hire a top line driver (Kimi is currently on the market and I suspect that if McLaren gave Alonso carte blanche to do whatever he wanted, he would be an option) and become a force to be reckoned with.

To see McL at the top, one of 2 things need to happen:
1. they luck into producing the fastest car, by far.
2. they change management, and become more ambitious and less risk averse.

With resources that McL have, they should have at least 1 of their drivers finish in the top 3, every year.

Next year, I am hoping that Hamilton is able to to take the fight to Vettel. Though I expect Vettel, to once again, be the one to beat next year.
 
I've said for a while that one of the main issues at McLaren is Whitmarsh.

He just seems to be managing by process, not by passion. Both Kimi and Alonso have been bouncing around the rumor mill this silly season, but at no point has there been any strong links to McLaren hinted at. Its as if they have gone "right, we have our PR driver, and our Piggy Bank driver, we will be fine" without realising that their major skills in management, drivers and engineering staff have all jumped ship.

McLaren need Ron, a Kimi/Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel, and a selection from the Mercedes Technical Team Pick'N'Mix to get back on track. They are making efforts to get none of it :(
 
I think Mclaren have this weird media policy, only a few sponsors, huge commitments beyond what seemingly any other sponsor or team has to go through in terms of volume of work... all meaning the drivers fly around, attend more events and are generally less relaxed and less focused on racing. One of the reasons Hamilton left was seemingly the vast volume of media work with a pay level that is under that of other big teams with less work... even ignoring the continual screw ups by the team that is a big reason to go elsewhere.

With all that said Kimi and Mclaren seems like the worst match in the paddock, strict and huge media volume with Kimi, the most antagonistic media guy in the paddock who likes doing his own thing and for whom strict would be stiffling to him? I can't see it at all, would Alonso go back, possibly.

I think the end of this year is the worst time to move, after next year the top drivers should be aiming to get into whichever team had the best new car in 2014.

This is what happened to Vettel(in not quite the same way) and has happened historically, the best drivers want to get into the best car and if you have the best car you want the best driver to match to make the most of it while you have the best car.

I've never cared about best driver and related it to world titles. Very average drivers have won titles by being in the best car, brilliant drivers have won nothing in cars that can't compete(or teams who constantly screw up). A brilliant driver can get 3rd when another driver would only get 5th in a particular race. Great driving has NOTHING to do with points or titles, you just in general get a move of the best drivers to the best teams and usually whoever has the best car in a given era(set of rules with relatively similar cars) tend to be able to attract the best driver at the time(if they need one that is ;) ).

Should Mclaren have an unbeatable 2014 car, I think most top drivers would happily accept a move(or move back) there. The only guy I think might not is Kimi for the reasons above.
 
They were never consistent under Ron either. I cannot remember a time they built the best car on the grid for two consecutive years, yet Red Bull have managed four or five years of the best car.

Whitmarsh is out of his depth and needs to be moved on, but Ron was never the answer despite him being a much more entertaining character. Perhaps it's Newey they need back, not Ron. I'd like him to go do Williams a favour first though ;)
 
With the number of cooks at Mercedes Ron should be having a word with Ross Brawn to come and take over the running of the team. Not sure Ross would come unlesws he was pushed by Mercedes though. He probably still sees it as 'his' team.
 
There's a good piece in Autosport this week about McLaren's failure to deliver championships. The main point of it seems to be that they are too tied up in micro-management, rely too much on simulation and are too keen to go for ambitious 'clean sheet' designs which seem to promise a lot in simulation but don't work so well in the real world. Probably the same with race strategy - too much reliance on Race Control, rather than pit-lane instincts. For me, the real problem they have is that they don't have an inspirational ideas man like Adrian Newey or Gordon Murray so they have to rely on raw data analysis. This means they end up tweaking little bits individually to get little improvements that don't then necessarily all come together into an overall better package. I doubt there's anyone in McLaren drawing on bits of paper like Newey does.

I think McLaren are also a bit too shy of 'bending the rules' as they've been on the wrong side of the FIA (and maybe Ferrari's 'technical veto' :p) too many times in the past.

Martin Whitmarsh is not the main problem here, just part of it. I think his position is just symptomatic of McLaren's current corporate culture. I can't personally see Martin Whitmarsh overruling a strategy decision made by 'Race Control' - but Ron Dennis would, as would Sir Frank Williams or Ross Brawn.
 
MissChief said:
With the number of cooks at Mercedes Ron should be having a word with Ross Brawn to come and take over the running of the team. Not sure Ross would come unlesws he was pushed by Mercedes though. He probably still sees it as 'his' team.
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I'm surprised Ross is still there to be honest. I (and may others) thought he was going to be shown the door as son as they started employing everyone they could.

McLaren just don't seem to be making any roads to employ key people. Drivers are on the market and they aren't making any moves, engineers are floating about but only away from McLaren, not to them. And senior management that can always be poached for the right price seem to be completely off McLarens radar.

Maybe they are just skint with all the Groups funding going towards building a road car division?
 
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