Poll: Italian Grand Prix 2018, Monza - Race 14/21

[Flibster]

Won't embed as it's an official video, but lets have the various views of Vettels brainfart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WVc8GFTcg4

The view backwards from Raikkonens car is particularly telling. He either understeers or deliberately targets Hamiltons sidepod.

 

[MagicBoy]

I'd like to see an onboard from another Vettel lap to get an idea of the steering inputs.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

What a contrast the poll is this weekend to spa.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Looking at the clips for the 18,000,000th time it seems to me that Vettel refused to compromise his line (until he had to) saw Hamilton steaming around the outside and chose to keep his foot in.

This caused him to over the kerb a bit heavy which launches him slightly and as a result he understeered in to the side of Hamilton.

Had he backed off a touch and taken a wider line on the entry he could have forced Hamilton deeper but also given himself more room to swing left and a better drive off the corner.

Easy for me to say, from my armchair and not at 150mph though

 

[Steampunk]

Easy for me to say, from my armchair and not at 150mph though

That's why they pay Vettel the big bucks, but he keeps making mistakes at those critical moments.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I mean, Vettel couldn't really back off, Hamilton put himself in a very dangerous position. Vettel was pushing Kimi all the way to the corner, Hamilton came at him extremely late. Fairly and a great move but Vettel also wasn't really looking for it, he was focused on Kimi and wasn't looking to be attacked. When Vettel starts breaking say 100m earlier he's not thinking Hamilton is going to be alongside him and at some point once you commit to a braking point and a line it's hard to change that. The real issue seems to be he actually messed up the corner, it's him hitting the corner too high and too hard I think that makes all the difference between his and Kimi's line. If he followed Kimi's line exactly if they did touch it would have been far less than it was and he'd be unlikely to spin.

But in the braking point he doesn't realise Ham will be there and he didn't intentionally hit the curb pushing him wider.

What I don't like is how much Vettel and a few other drivers seem to be oblivious that people can pop up out of nowhere in the first few corners way more than at any other time of the race. Vettel is consistently not ready for a 3rd (let alone a 4th) car to appear anywhere and causes a lot of accidents as a result.

I think Ham in a Ferrari would have easily blown everyone else away in qualifying and absolutely destroyed the race. For me he's better in every aspect of his driving than Vettel and ridiculously efficient. The number of times he was using less fuel while catching Rosberg and then also pitting later was just stupid. He finds an exceptional amount of ways to save tires, save fuel but maintain awesome pace.

Verstappen has that knack for tires and pace for sure. The experience will come and if he gets a great drive he could win a stupid number of titles. Against Ricciardo in Austria he was pulling away slightly iirc, had built a gap and then both going almost the same speed Verstappen found the places to save tire and places to pick up time and Ricciardo couldn't. Ricciardo trashed his tires while Verstappen couldn't.

Ham also hurt his tires but the out of strategy stop meant he had to push way to hard on the new tire as well as pushing extra hard due to fuel issues and losing power. If he stopped while cruising out front when everyone else did he'd have done the same as Verstappen, come out, cruise, protect tires then win easily.

 

[Armageus]

Well this escalated quickly.

 

[Dis86]

Not read any previous posts but I'm going to get thestig blames Hamilton and says it was intentional. Bet he also says he didn't deserve to win and Merc are cheats.

 

[MagicBoy]

In a nutshell, yeah.

 

[Lakeland]

Not read any previous posts but I'm going to get thestig blames Hamilton and says it was intentional. Bet he also says he didn't deserve to win and Merc are cheats.

And even though it was a fairly interesting race, he voted 2 out of 10 in the "how well did Ferrari do this race poll."

 

[gEd]

Brilliant, inspired, courageous and aggressive overtake by Hamilton. That's what F1 is supposed to be all about and the moments we will look back on when he likely wins the title.
(and I'm not a Merc or Hamilton fanboy, too old for that sort of thing). If anything, Kimi winning the title would bring me the greatest happiness.

 

[Flibster]

So how was the Ferrari on the soft tyres?
Well, here's Raikkonens tyres in Parc Ferme.



Another couple of laps and he'd be stuffed there.

 

[MissChief]

So how was the Ferrari on the soft tyres?
Well, here's Raikkonens tyres in Parc Ferme.



Another couple of laps and he'd be stuffed there.

As Brundle said on the Sky coverage Vettel gambled on tyres and only brought a single set of the softs. This meant they couldn't run a set during any of the practice sessions if they wanted to keep a set for the race. Even Raikkonen only had two sets so had limited running on them. Hamilton brought three sets, Bottas four.

 

[MagicBoy]

Jeez, that's ****ed.

The soft doesn't seem great in hot weather which is unusual for the harder compound. There were similar blistering issues in Austria.

 

[Entai]

As for the 13 people (at time of writing) rating this a 10/10... really? This equals or betters the best race you've ever seen?

No it equals or betters any race i have seen this year.

The ONLY mark for comparison, are other races in the same season.


You cannot in any way compare to previous seasons races, as far too many variables change from season to season.

It is the same as trying to call a best car or best driver ever in history, it is impossible. Certain cars and certain drivers were exceptional compared to their counterparts at the time, but it is impossible to compare them to previous or later cars and drivers.

 

[Entai]

As to the Vettel/Hamilton incident, all I can keep thinking of is Brundle's comment "9 out of 10 times the car on the outside will spin off"

What are the chances the very same thought was going through Vettel's mind at the time, thinking,

"ok oops I'm in a sticky point here, but if i tap him slightly he is likely to spin out, I can carry on and all will be good in the world"

A moment later

"oops again, that did not work out like I'd hoped, now I have right royally ****** up my race"

 

[CaptainRAVE]

As to the Vettel/Hamilton incident, all I can keep thinking of is Brundle's comment "9 out of 10 times the car on the outside will spin off"

What are the chances the very same thought was going through Vettel's mind at the time, thinking,

"ok oops I'm in a sticky point here, but if i tap him slightly he is likely to spin out, I can carry on and all will be good in the world"

A moment later

"oops again, that did not work out like I'd hoped, now I have right royally ****** up my race"

Wouldn't be the first time that Vettel has been involved in a questionable incident. Hamilton is a huge threat and they all know it.

As for the 13 people (at time of writing) rating this a 10/10... really? This equals or betters the best race you've ever seen?

As a footnote it struck me that Hamilton might have been stood on that podium slightly regretting signing for Mercedes for what we expect to be the his last contract. He probably feels a final fling in a Ferrari might have been fun with all that support behind him (then he can stop calling every single race's fans the best). Every top driver has to drive for Ferrari at some point and I can't think of any of top tier of all-time greats who didn't drive for Ferrari who's career wasn't ended early. Stewart, Hakkinen and Fittipaldi are the closest I can get, none of who I feel were the best of their eras but most might be in most people's top 10 I suppose.

It was a fantastic race. It was a 9 or 10 easy. We haven't had racing at the front like that (different teams, both on track, with and without DRS and with pit strategy) for some time - barely at all in the turbo hybrid era.

There is nothing to say he couldn't stay on and drive for Ferrari. I bet he would love a WDC with Ferrari.

 

[PaulCa]

Looking at the clips for the 18,000,000th time it seems to me that Vettel refused to compromise his line (until he had to) saw Hamilton steaming around the outside and chose to keep his foot in.

This caused him to over the kerb a bit heavy which launches him slightly and as a result he understeered in to the side of Hamilton.

Had he backed off a touch and taken a wider line on the entry he could have forced Hamilton deeper but also given himself more room to swing left and a better drive off the corner.

Easy for me to say, from my armchair and not at 150mph though

Then listen to Vettel. In the pen after the race he claims he "got out of it" with Kimi, then seen "Hamilton trying a bit around the outside". So, he knew Hamilton would be there and he had already "got out of it", thus he admitted he had opportunity to alter his line to give racing room.... but choose not to.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

At last, Verstappen gets a penalty for moving in the braking zone! About time too!

 

[PaulCa]

At last, Verstappen gets a penalty for moving in the braking zone! About time too!

In fairness it wasn't a classic Verstappen move - jinking to block in the braking zone. It was a legal "opening the corner", "returning to the line", but he failed to give Botas enough room. As Brundle said, "He gave him a 2016 car's room, but it's 2018, they are wider!"

The penalty was fair, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Judging your car position, relative to another cars to an accuracy of inches while under 5 G braking load from 225mph.... can't be easy.