I've just watched the Premier League Champions elect at Anfield

thats all good for you, but if you actually watch diaby on the wing, other than the fact he's cut in and scored from there, he rarely loses the ball there, he has dribbled past 3-4 plays at a time a lot of times already. he has that ridiculously weird ability to look like he's in no control of the ball but it never gets out of his reach and despite tackles flying in he keeps the ball.

as for rvp, he scored 12 last year with half a season injured, he didn't play in every other game when he wasn't injured, so that put him on course to be scoring at a 25 goal rate at least, hardly poor for the first season he's really been first team.

this year, not having much else other than goal scoring? he's setup and involved in the buildup to almost every goal. adebayour wouldn't have 6/7 goals if RVP wasn't laying the balls into him constantly. he can score from anywhere, any angle. he is a far more accomplished finisher now than bergkamp was except on berg's very best days in his career.

when we play rvp + fabregas + any other striker, every goal is coming from rvp or fabregas build up play, or they are both involved. he's scoring for holland at a silly rate, and afaik, at a much higher rate than bergkamp did, with a well, worse performing dutch team.

as for RVN, two goals scored from runs from the halfway line does not mean its a normal part of his game, for someone whose probably played in 300-400 games, maybe even more, 2 goals, which stand out as completely against the norm for him, kinda proves that. as for the fulham goal, not a single fulham player actually made a tackle, he didn't do a skill to get past players, he didn't hold them off, or out pace them, they simple, every last one of them stood off him and waited for someone else to tackle. was freaking funny, but not particularly difficult. as for running from the half way line against arsenal, i honestly can't remember it. fulham one i remember as it got a lot of replays and coverage, but was a joke.
 
NokkonWud said:
I must have watched a completely different player, playing for Man Utd when he fought hard for the ball consistently in his first year.
He might not have much more to his game than goal-scoring, but that's not a bad thing for a goal scorer, surely?
I've seen Nistelrooy skin players lots of times, including taking the ball from the halfway line against both Fulham and Arsenal before scoring.

You're very wrong if you don't see RVN as World Class I'm afraid. If I could pick any striker to score goals for me in the world, RVN would be my first call every single time. Explosive finishing is his game. His goal scoring record for Man Utd proves this.
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well that would be a bad call, the problem is, what if you're in a real madrid vs barca game for the champs league final and everyone has decided to heavily man mark all the man playmakers leaving your strikers completely isolated and on their own. do you think, henry/ronaldinho, eto, messi or RVN have the best chance of creating and taking their own chance?

i think RVN is a great finisher, but theres more to football than tap in's, in a tough game there are strikers who are just as capable as finishing, but are FAR better in other aspects of the game. I don't count RVN as world class, as, if theres a player who can defend, create, cross, take perfect free kicks, finish extremely well, dribble, is pacey and can run around an entire defence, and he's world class, is it fair to also call the guy who can only finish equally as well world class, without all the other parts of his game?
 
I'm sorry, but you don't have a clue. I take it you don't watch Spanish football because Nistelrooy scored several times from outside the area, several from runs and he scored tap-ins too.
You don't count Nistelrooy as World Class, but Eduardo is. Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but you don't really have a clue.

Nistelrooy is probably the best finisher in the modern game, he's strong, skillful and clinical. That's his job, and it clearly works because despite Barcelona having Messi, Eto'o and Ronaldinho, it was Nistelrooy who finished top goal scorer and Real Madrid as champions.
 
Youstolemyname said:
And they are Arsenal.

If they don't win the league this year it will be a tragedy. Some of their football was sublime, to the point where I was applauding them instead of Liverpool. First to every tackle and loose ball, always a spare man. Hunger and desire to win. Arsenal deserve it this year.

A 1-1 draw with the best footballing side in the league is more than Liverpool fans could have hoped for given our recent run of results. But the football that Arsenal played just made a mockery of anything I have seen at Anfield in the last few years.

If Chelsea or the Mancs win it this year it will be a travesty. Arsenal played some boss footy and deserve the league.

El Voz has spoken :)
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Come the end of the season it will be Man United that win the title. They are mentally stronger and the balance of the team is better, they also have better squad depth.
 
drunkenmaster said:
i think RVN is a great finisher, but theres more to football than tap in's, in a tough game there are strikers who are just as capable as finishing, but are FAR better in other aspects of the game.
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Sure RVN scored tap ins, but his ball control, touch and finishing was and still is supreme. Some of the goals he scored for us were incredible, we didn't need a forward who could score outside the box, we needed a RVN style player, a box striker, a player that could beat a few defenders and slot the ball into the back of the net, who was excellent in the air, who could lift the ball down from a cross with such ease and then score. Have a look on youtube at some of the goals he has scored, the first touches, the volleys, the headers that really had no right at finding their way into the net. He has a fantastic scoring record for the Dutch, English and Spanish leagues, and the best goal/game ratio in European football.

drunkenmaster said:
I don't count RVN as world class, as, if theres a player who can defend, create, cross, take perfect free kicks, finish extremely well, dribble, is pacey and can run around an entire defence, and he's world class, is it fair to also call the guy who can only finish equally as well world class, without all the other parts of his game?
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Going by your view of a world class player, exactly how many players do you have in this bracket? And who are they?

In your opinion all world class players would have the exact same abilities. There would be little difference between them all.
 
Linoge said:
Sure RVN scored tap ins, but his ball control, touch and finishing was and still is supreme. Some of the goals he scored for us were incredible, we didn't need a forward who could score outside the box, we needed a RVN style player, a box striker, a player that could beat a few defenders and slot the ball into the back of the net, who was excellent in the air, who could lift the ball down from a cross with such ease and then score. Have a look on youtube at some of the goals he has scored, the first touches, the volleys, the headers that really had no right at finding their way into the net. He has a fantastic scoring record for the Dutch, English and Spanish leagues, and the best goal/game ratio in European football.
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Absolutely. His goal against Charlton (IIRC) where he took the ball, turned and volleyed it in is still one of the very best finishes I have EVER seen.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I don't count RVN as world class, as, if theres a player who can defend, create, cross, take perfect free kicks, finish extremely well, dribble, is pacey and can run around an entire defence, and he's world class, is it fair to also call the guy who can only finish equally as well world class, without all the other parts of his game?
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So eduardo can do all that can he?

As others have said Van Nistlerooy IS a world class striker, he's strong and very good in the air, he can hold up the ball very well and there aren't many who can play the lone striker role as well as he can, his movement and range of finishing is matched by very few other players in the world. The only things than limit him from being the complete striker is his pace and dribbling ability.
 
HangTime said:
I was far more confident of us winning things in 2002-3 (when all we got was the FA Cup) than I am now. Or in other words I think we are in a fragile position, like I said earlier we haven't won a single league match outside London yet and the true tests are yet to come. We need to build up a points lead over the other big boys because if you look towards the business end of the season we have a nightmare run of fixtures:

Chelsea Away
Bolton Away
Liverpool
Man Utd Away

Those are not pretty games for Arsenal all in a row (barring any cup matches that might sneak in, who knows, maybe a trip to the Nou Camp or San Siro?) so I am certainly not getting complacent at this stage like I was 5 years ago when we were playing better football and annihilating all comers (until we lost 4 in a row).
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Well, we've now played those fixtures so I feel I'm now in a position to comment on our title credentials. It doesn't look good and I think we may even struggle to catch Chelsea for the 2nd Champions League place.

A lot has been made about our 'fantastic football' this season, and it's been great (most of the time) for sure, but in terms of the actual personnel I still feel we are not a strong a side as the two other Arsenal teams I mentioned earlier in the thread. If you'd offered me 3rd place at the start of the season (still not guarenteed) I wouldn't exactly have bitten your hand off, but equally I'd have viewed it as at least par for the course.
 
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