Caporegime
Not one to disagree with you but Shearer would make the top 5 for me but who to leave out?
I've just watched the Premier League Champions elect at Anfield
- Thread starter Youstolemyname
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I'd stick Shearer ahead of Zola and Nistlerooy, but if you were talking the top 5 I'd leave out Nistlerooy.
You could make a case for Fowler to be put in there as well but his peak didn't last as long as it should have.
Owen as well could deserve a place in the top 5, after all he won a European player of year award which is more than any of the others could personally say.
Sorry, I did genuinely mean to put foreign in there.
Zola was a genius with the ball, unbelievable.
Nistelrooy is the best finisher to ever play in the league.
I don't deny Zola was a fantastic player.
Nistlerooy was and is a world class finisher but Shearer had a better scoring record playing for an inferior side and also played in the Prem for a far longer period of time while maintaining a very high goals/game ratio throughout his career (forgetting his last few seasons).
By the same book Bergkamp is past it also - your theory doesnt really follow. Giggs is as much a legend as Bergkamp imo
I recall seeing RN miss a lot. which i realise is odd, seeing his scoring record. but then playing for man utd, imo it should have been even higher.
solskjaer was way more prolific for us when he played.
besides, if drogba can get 30+ goals for a chelsea side that find scoring more than a goal a game a waste of effort, someone as selfish and single minded as RVN should score at least the same in a team like man utd.
he was very good but not great
Caporegime
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no he's not(bergkamp that is), a striker, for me, is great football but goals. bergkamp had few high scoring years, and quite a few fairly poor scoring years. he also didn't set up AS many as you'd think. i love the guy, and he had a touch of genius, but he just didn't shoot as much as he should have, he had a distinct lack of pace and wasn't a prolific scorer, especially in comparison to nistelrooy, cantona, henry and the likes. hasselbaink was, as a striker, better than zola. anelka has been in drogba numbers scoring for 2 years, but for a frankly pants team, which is far more impressive IMHO. owen should still be counted in there, shearer , as much as i didn't like his style of play was a prolific striker. Ian wright was a ridiculously good striker, he could simply score from anywhere, he was an amazing player. if only he had never had a career in presenting afterwards we'd all think so much better of him
as of tonight, bendtner, who is scoring at the international level for the full side of whatever freaking country he's from(can't remember right now
), he was sublime tonight, he was really the playmaker tonight more than the striker. he was passing brilliantly, and had there been better finishing from theo , denilson and maybe one more from eduardo he could have had 3/4 assists. he was dinking balls over the top, he was holding the ball, running the ball, putting in defence splitting passes. ok its sheffield, but it wasn't that sheffield were bad, they didn't have a chance to be bad, we just completely took them out the game.eduardo's first goal showed exactly what he was capable of. he simply hasn't started, he's FAR more techincally gifted than adebayour, both passing, shooting, holding up play, he's a better header of the ball and pacey. he can score from anywhere at all within 30 yards of the goal. wenger does seem to be weird with new strikers, giving them a run in the team and so on. eduardo has only had 2-3 real appearances, and only on one of them, in a fairly lackluster game did he statistically not do well. but that was also the game adebayour finishing better would have given him a hatrick of assists. in his other games he got two assists, and in this, scored two. his second goal was the kind that, adebayour will only score 4 in 10 and those are realtively simple chances, that a cantona or hasselbaink would score 9 in 10 of. eduardo has for club's and country shown he will simply slot these away 9 in 10 times.
as i said, the ONLY difference between the current arsenal team's quality compared to title winning teams is the perception of their ability. the other teams had players who had been established players for 5 years, some 10, some longer so they were considered world class. the difference is you've known those names for a long time, thats it. doesn't mean they were better.
bah, any good sites for football stats, best i can make out is roughly 6 starts, 3 sub appearances, 4 goals and 2 assists.
considering his sub appearances have been very short, and he's been subbed around the 60-65 min mark in most games he's started and he only just got to arsenal thats pretty freaking impressive.
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Caporegime
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yes, solskjaer was a better finisher, one of the best maybe ever. he's a fantastic player who in his last real season of fitness was picked ahead of beckham as right wing quite a lot iirc. RVN was good, but he missed a lot, but when you have giggs, beckham, scholes, keane, oli and neville all putting the ball on the 6 yard line for you, even if you are crap you'll get quite a few goals. i don't think he's crap, i just don't think he was as fantastic as his stats suggest. i think if man u were struggling for midfielders rvn wouldn't have done that well at all. as oppossed to say anelka, who is missing basically a proper team behind him and he's still banging them in every chance he gets.
Of course Bergkamp is past it. He's retired.
I never said Bergkamp was at a World Class standard when he retired, what I did say is that he WAS a World Class player. Which he was, as well as one of the best to ever grace the Premiership.
I am a massive fan of RVP, but he's not in Bergkamps class, or, anywhere near it yet in my opinion.
For me, Giggs is more of a legend.
But Nistelrooy has done it in Holland, England and Spain.
First season in Spain, top goalscorer. It speaks volumes of his ability.
Caporegime
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played for getafe in his first season in spain did he?
Soldato
So you can't be a good striker if you play for a good team?
Why would top clubs sign players in the first place?
Caporegime
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no, but i'm saying that getting goals for a attack minded team with you at the very front is just a little easier than scoring for scunthorpe playing against barcelona. but RVN has very little else to his game, he rarely scores for 20-30 yards, he does little to no defending in tough periods of games, he can't tackle, but he also has little creativity, he doesn't really do through balls for other players, he gets few assists, very few. he doesn't see a long ball and pick out a player 40 yards away. he rarely if ever dribbles the ball around 3 defenders to score. he can't start with the ball 40 yards away, go around 4 players and score. this is all things that other "world class" strikers, and midfielders all have to their game ASWELL as great finishing. RVN has one small area to his game, other players can do the same as him and sooooo much more.
I must have watched a completely different player, playing for Man Utd when he fought hard for the ball consistently in his first year.
He might not have much more to his game than goal-scoring, but that's not a bad thing for a goal scorer, surely?
I've seen Nistelrooy skin players lots of times, including taking the ball from the halfway line against both Fulham and Arsenal before scoring.
You're very wrong if you don't see RVN as World Class I'm afraid. If I could pick any striker to score goals for me in the world, RVN would be my first call every single time. Explosive finishing is his game. His goal scoring record for Man Utd proves this.
Oh no definitely, I agree.
The scary thing is that most of the hype about Arsenal winning everything has come from outside. It's the media, or other fans (I mean, this very thread was started by a scouser) over-eulogising about our football thats got everyone going. Personally, I didn't come in to this season expecting us to win the title (although can yo uever "expect" it?), so I'm refusing to get carried away, and I think most Arsenal fans feel the same. Right now I'd settle for us beating Man Utd on saturday, and we'll see what happens after that.
Sorry, but that volley against Charlton last season, and the touchline goal against Blackburn (I think) the season before are already the stuff of legend for me. I don't think he yet adds as much outside of goals as Bergkamp did, but he's got the ability right now to be as good. Not potential, not distant "maybe he'll be good" hypothesising. He has the talent already, he just needs a full season playing to the best of his ability to show it.
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i Never said RVP is not good but i said it would be very hard for him to reach BK level
I'm sorry but the Bergkamp of '97-98 was better than what I've seen from RvP to date.
As for his goalscoring record, sure, it's not the best. But there was so much more to his game than just goals, I mean take that 7-0 drubbing of Everton a couple of years back, he only got 1 or 2 goals but was involved in at least 5.
I also refute the statement that Diaby has been 'absolutely brilliant' on the wing. He's been OK but certainly not up to the elite standard required.
As for his goalscoring record, sure, it's not the best. But there was so much more to his game than just goals, I mean take that 7-0 drubbing of Everton a couple of years back, he only got 1 or 2 goals but was involved in at least 5.
I also refute the statement that Diaby has been 'absolutely brilliant' on the wing. He's been OK but certainly not up to the elite standard required.