Jack Straw has the right idea!
- Thread starter inferno
- Start date
This was a real gutsy thing for Jack Straw to say, and I respect that. I can't deny that I have felt some degree of "WTF" as I've seen these crazy ninja women walk by shrouded in black from head to toe. I simply don't think that is an appropriate way to dress in british society. We need to see someones face we acknowledge them, whether we are talking to them or not. Covering the face is a sign of suspicion - modesty does not play a part in our society that it may do in islamic countries. I have seen women with head scarves on - the kind that dont cover the face, and I don't have a problem with that. I think that people should not be able to cover their faces, it is a barrier to communication and community. Therefore, I totally agree with Jack Straw and say that they should not be allowed to cover their faces.
Anyways carry on people, cos Im off to Geneva now!
Anyways carry on people, cos Im off to Geneva now!
Man of Honour
I'm on the far side, don't usually have occasion to go down that way. The area I live has very few muslims actually, but there's obviously a lot of crossover with the sheer volume of 'minorities' about. Having said that I think that pub is now a mosque or muslim bank, can't remember which. I'll actually be picking a friend up and driving down that way to football tomorrow so I'll try to pass it.
Unless you mean a different one, the one I'm thinking of is near Saville Town at the bottom of Thornhill?
Unless you mean a different one, the one I'm thinking of is near Saville Town at the bottom of Thornhill?
Ugh.. I usually stay out of political / religious debates online.. but I want to make a few points anyway:
1. Muslims need to culturally integrate more with the country they live in - Islam does not limit this entirely. Sure there are certain boundaries - for example, socialising in the presence of alcohol is not permitted, but it is possible to integrate at least to a satisfactory, if not to a very high level within these boundaries.
2. Muslims need to interact and socialise more with non-muslims. It's no wonder a lot of non-muslims are so ignorant or lack the knowledge or understanding of Islam that they may have otherwise. I find that a lot of Muslims just love sticking to their own - this is natural instinctive behaviour, however, I think humans are intelligent enough to move beyond that. I personally have a lot of diversity when it comes to friends - of all different religions, nationalities, cultures, etc - I'm very lucky to have met such a great, interesting and diverse set of people. You learn so much from each other, really.
3. Non-muslims need to educate themselves before they throw around comments on a subject they know very little about, otherwise it leaves them looking ignorant - not impressive at all, and more importantly it really does not help.
4. Islam encourages "modesty" in women - for their own benefit and protection, and to encourage a healthy and moral society. This is where the veil comes in (usually worn by choice, I won't go into the different forms of head dress, etc right now), and it is socially accepted in many Muslim states. Britain is not a Muslim state, and the majority of the population are not accustomed to interacting with people wearing veils so some animosity is to be expected. I think it is okay to express this feeling, however at the same time those same people must understand that a veil is very personal to some Muslim women wearing it, and asking them to remove it would be akin to asking them to remove a piece of undergarment, for example (this is how they would feel). So I think some people need to be a little more sensitive about this.
5. Muslims need to be more willing to educate or enlighten others about their religion. It would be more constructive to give explanations than solely protesting. You cannot expect everyone to go delve into a book on Islam to educate themselves on why certain things offend Muslims, etc..
Diversity is great. Interact, integrate, you'll never regret it.
1. Muslims need to culturally integrate more with the country they live in - Islam does not limit this entirely. Sure there are certain boundaries - for example, socialising in the presence of alcohol is not permitted, but it is possible to integrate at least to a satisfactory, if not to a very high level within these boundaries.
2. Muslims need to interact and socialise more with non-muslims. It's no wonder a lot of non-muslims are so ignorant or lack the knowledge or understanding of Islam that they may have otherwise. I find that a lot of Muslims just love sticking to their own - this is natural instinctive behaviour, however, I think humans are intelligent enough to move beyond that. I personally have a lot of diversity when it comes to friends - of all different religions, nationalities, cultures, etc - I'm very lucky to have met such a great, interesting and diverse set of people. You learn so much from each other, really.
3. Non-muslims need to educate themselves before they throw around comments on a subject they know very little about, otherwise it leaves them looking ignorant - not impressive at all, and more importantly it really does not help.
4. Islam encourages "modesty" in women - for their own benefit and protection, and to encourage a healthy and moral society. This is where the veil comes in (usually worn by choice, I won't go into the different forms of head dress, etc right now), and it is socially accepted in many Muslim states. Britain is not a Muslim state, and the majority of the population are not accustomed to interacting with people wearing veils so some animosity is to be expected. I think it is okay to express this feeling, however at the same time those same people must understand that a veil is very personal to some Muslim women wearing it, and asking them to remove it would be akin to asking them to remove a piece of undergarment, for example (this is how they would feel). So I think some people need to be a little more sensitive about this.
5. Muslims need to be more willing to educate or enlighten others about their religion. It would be more constructive to give explanations than solely protesting. You cannot expect everyone to go delve into a book on Islam to educate themselves on why certain things offend Muslims, etc..
Diversity is great. Interact, integrate, you'll never regret it.
Sul said:
Indeed, our society has become immoral these days with so many scantily clad women running around these days. Asking them to put some level of clothing on seems to be a challenge even by our own populous, so in comparison, the veil may not be such a bad thing after all
A muslim women strives to be the opposite of a ladette, and to focus on being a loyal dutiful wife and help to prevent male eyes from straying onto herself - a common reason for rape these days. Also, she will not suffer from the envy of others who are trying to be fashion conscious, this is one of the reasons why we have a school uniform
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A dutiful wife? This is 2006, women aren't supposed to be obedient to their husbands.Skyfire said:
Are you saying a common reason for rape is a man seeing a woman? That's like saying a common reason women are raped is that they go outside.
dirtydog said:
Seeing a vunerable woman outside alone is usually the wood for the fire, with a veil she is a little better protected from prying eyes taking some of the lust and desire out of the equation
The ill in today's society is that women are not loyal to their husbands, not like our forefathers before us. I expect a women to stay with me for life and not switch guys every week. This is reflected in an unbalanced social life with binge drinking and yob culture.
Gilly said:
Yeah its not far from the town centre, im fairly sure its still a pub, we it was up until a couple of months back, its tucked away towards the 'industrial' area. (I take it this is the area with all the minorities then?) I dont know the names of all the streets still, I just rely on tomtom to get me there!
Out of interest as you and skyfire live in very muslim dominated areas, how many people do you actually see with the full blown ninja style veil on, having driven through dewsbury i havent seen many, nor throught rochdale, were unfortunately i have to go too
Im tryign to guage whether different parts of the country have different sprinkling of the attire, i know going through birmingham, i will see a couple of woment with it on, and no more, and i have seen one in my locality
FunkyT said:Some shops will refuse to let people wearing hoodies in. I can't see a problem refusing to speak to someone if half of their face is covered.
My patience is wearing thin tbh
I wouldnt speak to ANYONE with a face covered, come to think of it.. i wouldn't speak to a hoody either
wohoo said:
Seems to be a part of ours
My next door neighbour does it , ended up in hospital last night... my other next door neighbour does , comes in at like 3am drunk.
Although i don't but it does seem the vast majority like a good drink
Man of Honour
No I'm still not sure where you mean. Got a postcode?wohoo said:
There isn't an area with minorities any more, it is easier to name the parts without. It just happens that 65% (ish) of directions out of the town centre are dominated by non-whites.
Its not a very uncommon sight. I could probably drive for 10 minutes from here and see 10 different people all with full-on headwear.wohoo said:Out of interest as you and skyfire live in very muslim dominated areas, how many people do you actually see with the full blown ninja style veil on, having driven through dewsbury i havent seen many, nor throught rochdale, were unfortunately i have to go too
Associate
Skyfire said:Seeing a vunerable woman outside alone is usually the wood for the fire, with a veil she is a little better protected from prying eyes taking some of the lust and desire out of the equation
The ill in today's society is that women are not loyal to their husbands, not like our forefathers before us. I expect a women to stay with me for life and not switch guys every week. This is reflected in an unbalanced social life with binge drinking and yob culture.
And i suppose all men are loyal to their wives?
I've never read more brainwashed BS.
Soldato
Probably been said before, but Jack Straw is right in what he's saying although it's nothing more than a publicity stunt. He obviously wants to try and push himself for the Deputy PM job. Why didn't he come up with these thoughts earlier? The man has a hidden agenda!
There never used to be as many of these women wearing these veils. It saddens me to see humans beings under so much control.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
There never used to be as many of these women wearing these veils. It saddens me to see humans beings under so much control.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
Soldato
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