Jack Straw has the right idea!

Maybe this thread is steering in the wrong direction? I don't think there is any need to **** off the muslim faith / People as probably a good percentage of them are decent folk. It is the percentage that are extremists that need to be weeded out and then the main group of muslim people can live without finger pointing.

This thread was meant to be just about the wearing of veils. Lets keep it on track. Lets show the readers that we are sensible in the choice of our words and not out to cause others distress and distrust.

I feel strongly myself about how this country is changing. Of how it is not 'Great' anymore, of how the British way of life is fast diminishing. People have to stand up for what they believe, and i am with Jack Straw 100%. This is 'Great Britain', not some Middle eastern country. Our Ancestors fought to keep this country alive with its true identity. If people want to come here to live, work and grow then they should respect the 'British' way of life, the 'British' way of living, and most of all, the 'British Identity'. If they cannot accept 'our' ways and traditions then they should not live here.

Why should we bend over backwards to welcome those that cannot bend with us? It is time the Muslim leaders of this country, rooted out the extremists and started to understand that 'Britain' belongs to the 'British' and has and always will have its own individual identity.

Come on guys (Muslims) you live here, you work here, you get support off of the government, so why not bend a little and try to work with the British people instead of fighting us over trivial things?
 
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wohoo said:
This is a Christian country, the religion by default defines the yard stick.
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I think you would find that there are many willing to resist those who wish to make this a Christian country, just as there many willing to resist those who wish to make this an Islamic country.

We have been a Christian country, it was not good for us. It is not time to throw away progress
 
Recently moving to Bristol, which is ethnically diverse, you tend to see that you only see white people with white people, black people with black people, muslim people with muslim people.


There's just no intergration at all, and I think this is a big cause of Britain having bad feelings against the ethnic miniority. Because 99% of your white british people don't have relaxed normal friendly relationships with these people, they're basing their opinions on the media and that !$white = omgalkiedaOSAMAmuslimbombingbadman



At the end of the day if the "ethnic minority" wanted to fit in, they would, whether its by being friendly or dressing "normally" (to our culture), they would.


And please stop the BS about religion, it's personal choice... and if it's not, and that's happening in this country... then something is seriously wrong.





Ack, forget it. Paint everyone white and ban all forms of religion. :( :p
 
Scarfacé said:
At the end of the day if the "ethnic minority" wanted to fit in, they would, whether its by being friendly or dressing "normally" (to our culture), they would.
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Certain ethnic groups DO NOT want to fit in , they demand to be accepted at whatever the cost and if you don't woe betide you!
 
I really don't see what the big issue is, we're supposed to have freedom in this country, that should mean.

1) Freedom to wear what you like
2) Freedom to object to what people are wearing
3) Freedom to ask people to wear something else in your presence (although they don't have to actually do so)

It's all about freedoms, and Jack straw is entitled to his, just as those who want to wear full veils are entitled to do so. Hell, I'd even support the right of people to refuse access to places to those who refuse to remove head coverings (whether they be veils, crashhelmets or anything else).

It seems to me that the big issue is that people want the right to do what they want, but refuse to accept other people's rights to object to it.
 
Dolph said:
1) Freedom to wear what you like
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One immediate discrepency I can see in that is if I goto the bank or a job interview I would have to take off my barlaclava, say, they do not, that is discrimination!

EDIT: Also what about the hoodies being banned in a shopping mall? Are Muslim wowen asked to remove their "hoodies"?
 
Van_Dammesque said:
One immediate discrepency I can see in that is if I goto the bank or a job interview I would have to take off my barlaclava, say, they do not, that is discrimination!

EDIT: Also what about the hoodies being banned in a shopping mall? Are Muslim wowen asked to remove their "hoodies"?
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Hence my point further down about:

I'd even support the right of people to refuse access to places to those who refuse to remove head coverings (whether they be veils, crashhelmets or anything else).
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If you read the whole post, that's already been addressed.

I support the right to wear what you like, and the right for others to make decisions based on what someone is wearing, just like I deserve the right to pick someone wearing a suit over someone wearing a rubber chicken outfit.

Whatever the reason for a clothing choice (and veils, burkhas etc are a choice, they aren't required anywhere in scripture), you should be expected to allow other people to have an opinion on your choice.
 
Dolph said:
I support the right to wear what you like, and the right for others to make decisions based on what someone is wearing, just like I deserve the right to pick someone wearing a suit over someone wearing a rubber chicken outfit.

Whatever the reason for a clothing choice (and veils, burkhas etc are a choice, they aren't required anywhere in scripture), you should be expected to allow other people to have an opinion on your choice.
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But that's the problem, a shop can demand someone to take a crash helmet of or leave the shop. Could you imagine the uproar, if the same was asked to a Muslim women wearing a veil. They'll use the anti religion laws to convict the shop keeper. Even though the karan doesn't say they need a veil, so it can't be called religious.

I've got no problems with freedom of speech/dress ect. But it has to work both ways. Can't have one rule for one, and another for someone else.
 
AcidHell2 said:
But that's the problem, a shop can demand someone to take a crash helmet of or leave the shop. Could you imagine the uproar, if the same was asked to a Muslim women wearing a veil. They'll use the anti religion laws to convict the shop keeper. Even though the karan doesn't say they need a veil, so it can't be called religious.

I've got no problems with freedom of speech/dress ect. But it has to work both ways. Can't have one rule for one, and another for someone else.
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Sadly, I could, and I think it's an example of what's actually wrong with this country.

People on all sides need to accept that freedom cuts both ways, and with freedom comes responsibility for your choices. Take the above example, it has the potential to get really complex. Someone is free to wear what they like, but the shopping centre should be free to refuse admission, but the person whose admission is refused also should be free to object to it and allow the information to spread to people so they can decide whether they would want to shop there.....

Unfortunately, people on both sides want their freedom to act but also want freedom from consequence.
 
Dolph said:
I really don't see what the big issue is, we're supposed to have freedom in this country, that should mean.
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Jack Straw has deliberately made a big issue of this, probably merely to nail his colours to the mast. His first statement was reasonable, his second statement was clearly about expressing his standpoint on the overall issue.

It has caused furore because it is seen as disagreeing with an aspect of Islam, despite the fact that it has dubious foundation within the Koran. This has riled Muslims becasue as we have seen there are many that simply cannot accept criticism. It is also a method by which Islamic Nationalists can rally each other to gain more support amongst the general Muslim population.
 
pcknight said:
I feel strongly myself about how this country is changing. Of how it is not 'Great' anymore, of how the British way of life is fast diminishing. People have to stand up for what they believe, and i am with Jack Straw 100%. This is 'Great Britain', not some Middle eastern country. Our Ancestors fought to keep this country alive with its true identity. If people want to come here to live, work and grow then they should respect the 'British' way of life, the 'British' way of living, and most of all, the 'British Identity'. If they cannot accept 'our' ways and traditions then they should not live here.

Why should we bend over backwards to welcome those that cannot bend with us? It is time the Muslim leaders of this country, rooted out the extremists and started to understand that 'Britain' belongs to the 'British' and has and always will have its own individual identity.

Come on guys (Muslims) you live here, you work here, you get support off of the government, so why not bend a little and try to work with the British people instead of fighting us over trivial things?
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Total and utter agreement
 
Van_Dammesque said:
One immediate discrepency I can see in that is if I goto the bank or a job interview I would have to take off my barlaclava, say, they do not, that is discrimination!

EDIT: Also what about the hoodies being banned in a shopping mall? Are Muslim wowen asked to remove their "hoodies"?
Click to expand...


my point exactly
 
pcknight said:
Maybe this thread is steering in the wrong direction? I don't think there is any need to **** off the muslim faith / People as probably a good percentage of them are decent folk. It is the percentage that are extremists that need to be weeded out and then the main group of muslim people can live without finger pointing.

This thread was meant to be just about the wearing of veils. Lets keep it on track. Lets show the readers that we are sensible in the choice of our words and not out to cause others distress and distrust.

I feel strongly myself about how this country is changing. Of how it is not 'Great' anymore, of how the British way of life is fast diminishing. People have to stand up for what they believe, and i am with Jack Straw 100%. This is 'Great Britain', not some Middle eastern country. Our Ancestors fought to keep this country alive with its true identity. If people want to come here to live, work and grow then they should respect the 'British' way of life, the 'British' way of living, and most of all, the 'British Identity'. If they cannot accept 'our' ways and traditions then they should not live here.

Why should we bend over backwards to welcome those that cannot bend with us? It is time the Muslim leaders of this country, rooted out the extremists and started to understand that 'Britain' belongs to the 'British' and has and always will have its own individual identity.

Come on guys (Muslims) you live here, you work here, you get support off of the government, so why not bend a little and try to work with the British people instead of fighting us over trivial things?
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Absolutely spot on.
 
Multiculturism is a failed concept.

Allowing multiple cultures to exist in one country is nothing but devisive, and contributes to the segregation of the country on ethnic / cultural grounds.

Its time to adopt the "melting pot" model where all immigrants are welcome, subject to a numbered limit with the firm understanding that they are to become British, and adopt British culture. They are encouraged to contribute to it, and hopefuly the positive aspects of their own mother cultures can be assimilated.
 
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