Jack Straw has the right idea!

B&W said:
imo thats not true, i aint got 1 relative or m8 who forces their daughters/wives to cover up or wear veils. infact the most extreme of my relatives has a wife who wears jeans now n then (the woman totally controls and manipulates him tbh)


most of the women wear asian clothes , some wear trousers and most people arent too bothered by that.
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Spawns experiences appear to be different to yours then.
You are however one of the more liberal and progressive muslim posters here and so it is likely that in your social circles you'll encounter people with views more like yours.
 
cleanbluesky said:
The worst kinds of opression are those that people choose. For example, many British women in the UK still have ideas that they should behave certain ways i.e. "a woman's place is in the kitchen", now if a woman accepts this, it doesn't mean that they are not opressed. Another fine example of sexism is the way in which women's reproductive organs and cycles are viewed, it is far more common for a woman to have hers surgically removed than for a man to have his testes removed or operated upon.



I expect that there are, just as I expect that there are muslim families that would coerce members of their family to wear one. bear in mind that Straw's comments were held against veil wearers rather than all muslims.
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i think its a way of rebelling for em. i would happily place a bet that most of the women who wear the veil do it out of their own free will.

of course your gonna get sum ppl who'll force their women to wear it, but i would say most of em have a choice in the matter
 
VIRII said:
So rather than use the free speech that this country allows to offer an opinion of the veil he should shut up before some muslims murder him?
Wouldn't it be nicer all round if he could enjoy the freedom of speech, criticise Islam and muslims could learn to accept criticism without violent reaction?

As for the rest of your post - I agree with you.
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Free speech as ive said previously doesnt exist..absolute free speech that is, if you think it does then your sadly mistaken. Yes it would be nice to say what you want, when you want without the threat of being murdered or someone taking offence. But it seems like nowadays anything you might say online or in real life...someone out there will take offence to it.
Criticism of islam is fine by me, what bothers me and gets my back up is when the criticism is unfounded or just plain offensive a la the cartoons from a few months ago. By all means criticise islam or whatever you like but at least do it in such a way that it doesnt cause offence. I have my own criticisms of islam but i criticise it in a way where it doesnt cause offence but rather it asks questions as to why things are done in a certain way etc.
 
VIRII said:
Spawns experiences appear to be different to yours then.
You are however one of the more liberal and progressive muslim posters here and so it is likely that in your social circles you'll encounter people with views more like yours.
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trust me m8 dispite my views i am sorrounded by muslims who have the "islam is perfect attitude".

my dad and 1 of my cousins are the only muslims i have encountered who share my views that the quran is not the 100% truth and is not perfect.
 
Spawn said:
Same here i dont like the veil or the burkha, i do find it oppressive but if a woman chooses to wear it then so be it....plus you can still dress moderatley without having to wear the burkha or veil etc. I dont like parents who force their daughters to wear one either and i make it quite clear to them that what they are doing is against islam...forcing them to wear one...i have a few uncles that seem to think its their god given right to make their daughters ie my cousins wear it...i just think its pathetic of them tbh. It should always be a choice of the woman concerned whether she wears one or not. Mind you my gf is contemplating on wearing a hijaab, not the same as a veil but im still in 2 minds about it as i cannot stop her but that doesnt stop me from not liking it.
As far as im concerned if i have a daughter then she can choose to wear one, if she doesnt then thats her choice but one thing i wouldnt want or allow is my daughter to dress like a **** like most young women these days think its ok to do...just asking for trouble if you ask me.

On another note that bug eyed idiot called Salman Rushdie, who still thinks hes a muslim has also voiced his opinion saying the veil 'sucks' lol. It would be wise of him to keep his pathetic little mouth shut before someone puts another fatwah on him and therefore costing us taxpayers millions of pounds to make sure his security and well being is looked after.
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yer you cant forceably make som1 wear it, thats wrong islamically but u still get the ppl who do it. probably scared sum1 will fancy their daughter...

spawn i actually find that the girls who wear the headscarf get upto more naughty stuff then those who wear trousers or western clothes..

i think a lot of em jus do it thesedays so they appear more islamic or something, i dunno women r strange.
 
Personally i think it's up to the individual what they wear. if they choose to wear a veil then fine if not then fine.
Just because i am used to dealing with people face to face doesn't mean i can't adapt so that someone has the freedomto practise thier religion/ culture in thier way.
it's all about freedom of choice. i choose to dress a certain way so do they. why does it make it any less valid just couse it's linked to thier religion or culture
 
Spawn said:
Free speech as ive said previously doesnt exist..absolute free speech that is, if you think it does then your sadly mistaken. Yes it would be nice to say what you want, when you want without the threat of being murdered or someone taking offence. But it seems like nowadays anything you might say online or in real life...someone out there will take offence to it.
Criticism of islam is fine by me, what bothers me and gets my back up is when the criticism is unfounded or just plain offensive a la the cartoons from a few months ago. By all means criticise islam or whatever you like but at least do it in such a way that it doesnt cause offence. I have my own criticisms of islam but i criticise it in a way where it doesnt cause offence but rather it asks questions as to why things are done in a certain way etc.
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Without wishing to debate the cartoons again I'd take a few noteworthy points from your post...

Firstly you state that no-one can say anything without someone getting offended by it.
You then state that criticism of Islam is fine but cartoons are plain offensive.

Cartoons have been used for hundreds of years in European media to depict people, political situations and scenarios.

Like it or not Islam is being used by people as an excuse to commit terrible acts of violence. The cartoons simply reflect pictorially what is actually happening. It is incredible that someone can get more worked up over a cartoon that reflects a real situation than over a bunch of people murdering people in the name of Islam. Which is the real crime against god? Bombing people on tube trains or drawing a cartoon?

Usually an offensive comment draws criticism, yet when Islam is criticised it draws extreme violence, indeed the reaction to the cartoons aptly validated them. The cartoons said that Islam is being hijacked by extremeists and by violence. The reaction? Violence. Ironic huh?
 
B&W said:
yer you cant forceably make som1 wear it, thats wrong islamically but u still get the ppl who do it. probably scared sum1 will fancy their daughter...

spawn i actually find that the girls who wear the headscarf get upto more naughty stuff then those who wear trousers or western clothes..

i think a lot of em jus do it thesedays so they appear more islamic or something, i dunno women r strange.
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Hehehe i was about to say the same thing, i remember a drama on CH4 a few months ago where a british born muslim lass was forced by her family to wear the head dress and burkha. As soon as she walked out the door and got into her car...she would pull up and get changed into her jeans/skirts etc etc.

But yes i know a few naughty supposedly islamic women/girls who wear the hijaab and dress in front of their parents but yet soon as they walk out the door..they turn into right little *****...quite funny but sad at the same time if you ask me.
 
Van_Dammesque said:
@ Spawn: Why do you have in your avatar "Candian stuck in the UK :( " and yet in your sig you have "Proud to be a **** & Muslim"?
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No reason, why does it bother/offend you??....i dont think im breaking any rules as per the forum rules so i wont be changing it any time soon unless i find a better slogan...
 
Spawn said:
No reason, why does it bother/offend you??....i dont think im breaking any rules as per the forum rules so i wont be changing it any time soon unless i find a better slogan...
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Well i think he was getting at the fact that if i for example, a white British male were to have in my signature not a "****" or a Muslim and Proud i suspect i'd be getting a holiday...

Personally it doesn't offend me

>| Raoh |<
 
RaohNS said:
Well i think he was getting at the fact that if i for example, a white British male were to have in my signature not a "****" or a Muslim and Proud i suspect i'd be getting a holiday...

Personally it doesn't offend me

>| Raoh |<
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No skin off my nose, i wouldnt get offended by someone's sig etc, after all its only a sig but i guess some people can get a bit touchy over it:confused:.. it all boils down to this PC rubbish...the sooner we get rid of it the better. But cant see that happening anytime soon sadly.
 
Spawn said:
No skin off my nose, i wouldnt get offended by someone's sig etc, after all its only a sig but i guess some people can get a bit touchy over it:confused:.. it all boils down to this PC rubbish...the sooner we get rid of it the better. But cant see that happening anytime soon sadly.
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Well thats just it

>| Raoh |<
 
Spawn said:
No reason, why does it bother/offend you??....i dont think im breaking any rules as per the forum rules so i wont be changing it any time soon unless i find a better slogan...
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First off, if I called someone a "****" I would be hauled to the nearest jail.

Secondly, it doesn't offend me.

I am enquiring as to why you have seem to have identity issues and maybe exhibiting an islamic nationalism to your "homelands". This is the sort of thing that causes segregation, i.e. you are claiming to be of Pakistani of origin but clearly your from Canada.
What slogan do you intend on making next? What would be the purpose?
 
Van_Dammesque said:
First off, if I called someone a "****" I would be hauled to the nearest jail.

Secondly, it doesn't offend me.

I am enquiring as to why you have seem to have identity issues and maybe exhibiting an islamic nationalism to your "homelands". This is the sort of thing that causes segregation, i.e. you are claiming to be of Pakistani of origin but clearly your from Canada.
What slogan do you intend on making next? What would be the purpose?
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LOL calm down fella, its only a friggin sig;). Geez point proven, people find the smallest of things to get offended at:rolleyes:. For the record i havent got identity issues, i know what my identity is thanks;). I guess the fact that ive said im a canadian stuck in the uk and also coupled with my statement of being a **** and muslim has got your back...if so then i make absolutely no apologies to you..if you cant accept a sig then tough, you have some serious issues tbh and unless im told by a mod or Spie i wont be changing it anytime soon.

Btw my next slogan most probably be death to all infidels...if that offends you then sue me:p.....btw in case you havent realised most of my posts are sarcastic in nature so try not to get too offended by that comment as im neither that stupid or arrogant to say such a thing...
 
Spawn said:
LOL calm down fella, its only a friggin sig;). Geez point proven, people find the smallest of things to get offended at:rolleyes:. For the record i havent got identity issues, i know what my identity is thanks;). I guess the fact that ive said im a canadian stuck in the uk and also coupled with my statement of being a **** and muslim has got your back...if so then i make absolutely no apologies to you..if you cant accept a sig then tough, you have some serious issues tbh and unless im told by a mod or Spie i wont be changing it anytime soon.

Btw my next slogan most probably be death to all infidels...if that offends you then sue me:p.....btw in case you havent realised most of my posts are sarcastic in nature so try not to get too offended by that comment as im neither that stupid or arrogant to say such a thing...
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Why do you ask others not to get offended at your comments or ask people to calm down yet get offended over a cartoon?
Don't you see the dual standard there?
 
I'm betting the disclaimer of "A Canadian stuck in UK:(" is becasue Spawn doesn't feel he would be totally accepted by Brits and Britain and the "Proud to be a **** & Muslim" is becasue he feels he needs to understand his background.

Spawn has always struck me as someone who is semi-integrated, not hateful of the UK but not loving either.

I cannot criticise him for needing to understand his background... I wear a Celtic necklace to recognise my racial heritage and a Pentacle to recognise my spiritual attitude.
 
Spawn said:
LOL calm down fella, its only a friggin sig;). Geez point proven, people find the smallest of things to get offended at:rolleyes:. For the record i havent got identity issues, i know what my identity is thanks;). I guess the fact that ive said im a canadian stuck in the uk and also coupled with my statement of being a **** and muslim has got your back...if so then i make absolutely no apologies to you..if you cant accept a sig then tough, you have some serious issues tbh and unless im told by a mod or Spie i wont be changing it anytime soon.

Btw my next slogan most probably be death to all infidels...if that offends you then sue me:p.....btw in case you havent realised most of my posts are sarcastic in nature so try not to get too offended by that comment as im neither that stupid or arrogant to say such a thing...
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Van_Dammesque said:
Secondly, it doesn't offend me.
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I find it strange when someone openly declares their loyalty to another country rather than their own. But, as you have said, then it is all sarcasm.

EDIT: Would you like to be called a **** on the street? I doubt you would (assuming you are not-white).
 
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