Jack Straw has the right idea!
- Thread starter inferno
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starscream said:
I would actually argue that the tracksuit is infact a traditional item of your religion. As westerners, we were all brought up with christian values whether you believe them and to what extent is a different matter. You could quite legitamtly don that loverly arabian shawl if you wanted to, yet some how we choose not to. How we act and dress is as a direct result of how we have grown as a society from those roots.
To relate this to Straw's comments, how our multi-cultural society functions and interacts is largely dependant on the dominant social trend. Since this is england, a well established western nation then our own laws and customs apply. What it essentially boils down to is the total failure of other cultures to adapt and integrate into the dominant society. In England, it is customary to communicate openly and honestly. A greeting may incur a handshake or a brief nod of the head. A discussion may involve many hand gestures and facial expressions. By hiding onself behind a veil, you limit the purseived attainable information suggesting the participant to be untrustworthy. That is a custom. Simple as.
The concept of veil-ing is nothing more than an underhand example of male dominance over women. I am quite frankly disgusted and appaled that something so obvious can be allowed to continue under our society with the guise its ok "Because god says so".
(Sorry in advanced for the many spelling errors.)
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Locrian said:
So true a nod of the head to a complete strange can feel like you have know the guy all your life or smiling at a woman, I dont see many woman with viels on there head and to be honest I would be abit freaked by it, its not in my culture, its not in my upbringing and its somthing I dont believe in....so.
We call the French but they tried to outlaw somthing like this.
Yeah, but it was a very small number of people. Just because a dozen, or a thousand, espouse something, you can't blame all what, 1.6 million co-religionists or assume that they would support that action.Teki187 said:
That's precisley what so many muslims currently object to - the notion that a handful commit terrorism so they must all be terrorists. It's cobblers, just like it was cobblers when the IRA planted a bomb, so anyone Irish Catholic must be a bomber. It was paranoid fear then, and it's paranoid fear now.
Yes, there are muslims prepared to commit terrorist acts. So blame them, not anyone who happens to be a muslim. And what about the Sikhs who are getting viewed with suspicion because someone thinks they look like a muslim.
If we let that paranoia and suspicion grow, then the terrorists will have succeeded.
Soldato
Just a random thought... When you go into Banks and shops and stuff and have to remove your crash helmet (presumably a security / identification thing) do Muslim women have to remove their veil?
I really don't care either way about Religion as such but I find it interesting that quite often people can get away with doing something that is considered unreasonable and in some cases suspicious when it is not covered by the act of religious necessity.
Also is it actually required as a Muslim to wear the whole ninja getup (headscarf, Veil thing?) because quite often visiting places like Leicester where there are large communities I've seen vast differences in dress style with and without the headscarf / veil (does it have a proper name?)
I really don't care either way about Religion as such but I find it interesting that quite often people can get away with doing something that is considered unreasonable and in some cases suspicious when it is not covered by the act of religious necessity.
Also is it actually required as a Muslim to wear the whole ninja getup (headscarf, Veil thing?) because quite often visiting places like Leicester where there are large communities I've seen vast differences in dress style with and without the headscarf / veil (does it have a proper name?)
Velocity219e said:
cheets64 said:
So true, I would get petrol bombed by her husband and her 12 brothers and 4 cousins if I challeneged a muslim woman, I get asked for Id for lookig under 21 never mind wearing a piece of cloth,
How can we go forward IF we dont know where we have been, to me its seems we are forgetting where we HAVE been just for the sake of religion, The Nazis ruined a genaration and they are only just dieing (RIP) after year of good life, Muslims need to take a note and fast, I for one aint a racist but its starting to wear pretty thin with me.
OMG Jack Straw you CANT say that but we can do this, that lad has been taught and told to burn a house down, sick *******
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wohoo said:
The war begins.
wohoo said:Just step away from the keyboard and breathe dude
What next ASDA started of as Associated Dairies to be targeted.
They can buy there muslim food, so they can live to our stanadards.
The UK took in Muslims so be thankful.
Why do people post so much ****?
Covering the face is not required or needed in Islam. A woman who follows Islam should cover her hair/wear modest clothes.
"I don't know anything about Islam but I'm going to post meaningless drivel anyway!!! they're all naughty people
"
Covering the face is not required or needed in Islam. A woman who follows Islam should cover her hair/wear modest clothes.
"I don't know anything about Islam but I'm going to post meaningless drivel anyway!!! they're all naughty people
"
Soldato
Raz said:Why do people post so much ****?
Covering the face is not required or needed in Islam. A woman who follows Islam should cover her hair/wear modest clothes.
"I don't know anything about Islam but I'm going to post meaningless drivel anyway!!! they're all naughty people
Well why do majority of muslims talk meaningless drivel in the media about it being a right as a muslim to wear it and part of their faith? If its not required stfu and get on with it.
In my experiences Muslims on the whole are hypocritical.
Muslims want to wear veils, but in a country with a threat of terrorism, they have no compassion to reveal their identity. Surely they could use open faced ones, but still cover their hair.
If a westerner went to a muslim country, wearing a mini-skirt and boob tube, they would get spat at and victimised. The rules of visiting their countires is for females to be covered up.
When my son was around 1 years old, we went on a bus. A fully clothed female muslim sat next to us and my lad would not stop screaming - she must have looked rather scary to him. But rather than offer to move, she sat firmly and I asked her to either remove her veil, talk to my lad or move, to which she arrogantly did nothing, and we had to move to the upper deck. Quite an effort with a pushchair! Needless to say a lot of the other passengers sympathised with me.
The 'progressive' muslims I work with do not cover themselves up, even when visiting their home countries, but are still participating in ramadan (sp?) and I see these as the future ambassabor's for their countires, not the stubborn ones which won't adapt.
Muslims want to wear veils, but in a country with a threat of terrorism, they have no compassion to reveal their identity. Surely they could use open faced ones, but still cover their hair.
If a westerner went to a muslim country, wearing a mini-skirt and boob tube, they would get spat at and victimised. The rules of visiting their countires is for females to be covered up.
When my son was around 1 years old, we went on a bus. A fully clothed female muslim sat next to us and my lad would not stop screaming - she must have looked rather scary to him. But rather than offer to move, she sat firmly and I asked her to either remove her veil, talk to my lad or move, to which she arrogantly did nothing, and we had to move to the upper deck. Quite an effort with a pushchair! Needless to say a lot of the other passengers sympathised with me.
The 'progressive' muslims I work with do not cover themselves up, even when visiting their home countries, but are still participating in ramadan (sp?) and I see these as the future ambassabor's for their countires, not the stubborn ones which won't adapt.
I really havn't made my mind up on this issue, I can see both sides of the story really.
I agree with Jack Straw asking people to remove their vails when he is having a face to face conversation with them. Looking at somones face when you interact is a a very natural thing and I think it is disrespectful to the person you are talking to if you hide away.
I'm not sure why so many people are talking about racism however, this issue has very little to do with race. A white, black or Asian woman following Islam could equally be wearing a vail.
The issue is about culture not race, wearing a vail or hiding you hair is not part of traditional British culture, however it is part of Islamic culture, so how do we say who is right. We have three choices really:
1. Let all cultures in this country practice all non violent customs and traditions.
2. Ask other cultures to meet us half way by not practasing tradiotions on a daily basis that are very much against our own culture. Practicing them for special occasions is tolorated.
3. Oultlaw anything not seen to be traditionally British
As far as I'm concerened things have moved on from a hundreds of years ago, the key values of religion are still important but superficial practices are neither here nor there and hopefully over time will be relaxed and forgotten about.
Anyone getting themselfs too worked up about this needs to chill out and worry about their own lives a bit more.
I agree with Jack Straw asking people to remove their vails when he is having a face to face conversation with them. Looking at somones face when you interact is a a very natural thing and I think it is disrespectful to the person you are talking to if you hide away.
I'm not sure why so many people are talking about racism however, this issue has very little to do with race. A white, black or Asian woman following Islam could equally be wearing a vail.
The issue is about culture not race, wearing a vail or hiding you hair is not part of traditional British culture, however it is part of Islamic culture, so how do we say who is right. We have three choices really:
1. Let all cultures in this country practice all non violent customs and traditions.
2. Ask other cultures to meet us half way by not practasing tradiotions on a daily basis that are very much against our own culture. Practicing them for special occasions is tolorated.
3. Oultlaw anything not seen to be traditionally British
As far as I'm concerened things have moved on from a hundreds of years ago, the key values of religion are still important but superficial practices are neither here nor there and hopefully over time will be relaxed and forgotten about.
Anyone getting themselfs too worked up about this needs to chill out and worry about their own lives a bit more.
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