Jack Straw has the right idea!

MookJong said:
I really havn't made my mind up on this issue, I can see both sides of the story really.

I agree with Jack Straw asking people to remove their vails when he is having a face to face conversation with them. Looking at somones face when you interact is a a very natural thing and I think it is disrespectful to the person you are talking to if you hide away.

I'm not sure why so many people are talking about racism however, this issue has very little to do with race. A white, black or Asian woman following Islam could equally be wearing a vail.

The issue is about culture not race, wearing a vail or hiding you hair is not part of traditional British culture, however it is part of Islamic culture, so how do we say who is right. We have three choices really:

1. Let all cultures in this country practice all non violent customs and traditions.
2. Ask other cultures to meet us half way by not practasing tradiotions on a daily basis that are very much against our own culture. Practicing them for special occasions is tolorated.
3. Oultlaw anything not seen to be traditionally British

As far as I'm concerened things have moved on from a hundreds of years ago, the key values of religion are still important but superficial practices are neither here nor there and hopefully over time will be relaxed and forgotten about.

Anyone getting themselfs too worked up about this needs to chill out and worry about their own lives a bit more.
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Excellent post there MookJong and pretty much how I feel about it.
 
weeble said:
When my son was around 1 years old, we went on a bus. A fully clothed female muslim sat next to us and my lad would not stop screaming - she must have looked rather scary to him. But rather than offer to move, she sat firmly and I asked her to either remove her veil, talk to my lad or move, to which she arrogantly did nothing, and we had to move to the upper deck. Quite an effort with a pushchair! Needless to say a lot of the other passengers sympathised with me.
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To be fair tho, thats was your issue nor hers would you not say, how would you feel if some asked you to take a piece of clothing off in public?

You cite that western folk in the ME have to dress according to their way, can we really directly compare ourselves in the west to those in the ME, arent we after all free to wear what we want and have freedom of choice and freedom thought.Or does only apply to those we feel deserve those rights?


I think its another mountain out of a mole hill.I have been to many of ethnic areas in this country and yeas your some fully veiled women, but thats like maybe 5-10% of the women in that street, is that few women so much of a problem to you guys? The vast majority of the women will have a headscarf on.

Out of interest how do many of you feel about headscarves, are they acceptable or not?
 
tom_nieto said:
I don't mind people wearing veils, that's up to them. It is the truth that it's very hard to communicate with someone when you can't see their face, and especially their facial expression.
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I totally agree with that, it just seems like common sense to me.
 
wohoo said:
To be fair tho, thats was your issue nor hers would you not say, how would you feel if some asked you to take a piece of clothing off in public?
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If someone asked me to remove my hat, I would, similar to removing hats when indoors.

wohoo said:
You cite that western folk in the ME have to dress according to their way, can we really directly compare ourselves in the west to those in the ME, arent we after all free to wear what we want and have freedom of choice and freedom thought.Or does only apply to those we feel deserve those rights?
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Are we free to dress how we all want to globally? I think not. The shoe has to fit on both sides, not just one.

wohoo said:
Out of interest how do many of you feel about headscarves, are they acceptable or not?
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Headscarves are fine, as you can see facial identity and facial reactions when talking.
 
this is my view, now im not racist but I disagree with the religion of Islam and have no respect for its followers.
What should be said is that this is ENGLAND and if you want to wear your silly dresses go elsewhere and do so.

The country has gone PC mad, if i want to see people in stragnge head gear I'll go to a muslim country, I dont want to see it here on my doorstep!
 
The whole arguement is not about race, but about the CULTURAL differences between the Muslim and Christianity faiths. These have been around for hundreds of years, although I don't know enough about their evolutions through time...

I have a mixed race family, and certainly know some of the silent looks of disapproval from predominantly white people, yet those from ethinic backgrounds smile. However, like I said, it's not race, but culture that's being discussed here.
 
ants83 said:
this is my view, now im not racist but I disagree with the religion of Islam and have no respect for its followers.
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You're right, thats not a racist comment. It is prejudiced though.

ants83 said:
What should be said is that this is ENGLAND and if you want to wear your silly dresses go elsewhere and do so.
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And ENGLISH muslims go...?

ants83 said:
The country has gone PC mad, if i want to see people in stragnge head gear I'll go to a muslim country, I dont want to see it here on my doorstep!
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Or just look at Jamiroquai :shrug:

FWIW I think you're trolling. I find it hard to believe your intelligence/education is so lacking that you'd honestly believe the things you've said.
 
I saw a news clip on this, they interviewd a lady on the street and they asked what she thought about it.

She said she agrees, we live in britain so they should live by our rules as would we if we lived in there countries !

AHMEN !
 
Raz said:
Yes - Islam hasn't asked her to do that.
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Then maybe someone needs to tell the rest of the world what Islam actually does expect and does not expect as it seems a shed load of muslims don't know, they certainly can't all be right.

As for asking someone who you are having a conversation with to remove items that hide the face - what is actually wrong with that? Nothing that I can see at all.
 
Clearcut said:
What really annoyed me was that I watched a program later about a couple buying a property in Morocco and the presenter mentioned the women having to 'cover up' to respect the locals.
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If you intend to live there then you should respect local custom and tradition and try not to bother, worry or upset the people who live there.

I have been to the 5 major cities of Morocco and no-one told the tourists what to wear, none of the tourist women donned headscarves or anything.
Morocco is a pretty cool place by the way.

However if you intend to actually live there full time then you should make serious efforts to fit in.
 
Gilly said:
You're right, thats not a racist comment. It is prejudiced though.

And ENGLISH muslims go...?


Or just look at Jamiroquai :shrug:

FWIW I think you're trolling. I find it hard to believe your intelligence/education is so lacking that you'd honestly believe the things you've said.
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This country over the years has been ruined, such a shame.
 
You know what i mean Gilly.

I respect your views as you are the type of person to see both sides of the story. But surely you must agree they do push it about religion.

And if we did that in their country (if they are not UK born) they would go mental.
 
I'm just trying to make sure that people don't lose sight of what is actually the issue at hand. There are plenty of English muslims about, both of actual English descent as well as 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation imports.
 
wohoo said:
To be fair tho, thats was your issue nor hers would you not say, how would you feel if some asked you to take a piece of clothing off in public?

You cite that western folk in the ME have to dress according to their way, can we really directly compare ourselves in the west to those in the ME, arent we after all free to wear what we want and have freedom of choice and freedom thought.Or does only apply to those we feel deserve those rights?


I think its another mountain out of a mole hill.I have been to many of ethnic areas in this country and yeas your some fully veiled women, but thats like maybe 5-10% of the women in that street, is that few women so much of a problem to you guys? The vast majority of the women will have a headscarf on.

Out of interest how do many of you feel about headscarves, are they acceptable or not?
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It is not his problem, it is not his actions that are frightening a small child.
It is NOT normal for people to walk around looking like some shambling laundry pile with no face, I can imagine it must look like something from Dr Who to small kids.
It is a very strong "stuff your culture, your way of life, just give me my benefits" message that is sent out when someone so utterly fails to conform to the norms in this way. Why should we tolerate it? Adapt, fit in or move out.

Headscarves are fine, the face is fully visible. Although I often see very elaborate headscarves worn which seems to defeat the point of dressign modestly as the headscarf itself draws attention in the first place and more so when it is a bright colour and finely embroidered.
 
Chronos-X said:
Someone needs to balance the 'Racists Corner' tagteam of CBS and VIRII ;)
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I'm not racialist, some of my best friends are coloured

Virii said:
Say it to my face one day boy.
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Which is another interesting thought I had. I say nothing on here that I would not say to anyone's face, and I suspect Virii is the same.
 
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