Jaguar I-Pace Thread

So if they say you don't need to use the brake pedal when the regen braking is set to high, does that mean the car slows down without the brake lights coming on? bit dangerous if that's the case?
 
MissChief said:
So if they say you don't need to use the brake pedal when the regen braking is set to high, does that mean the car slows down without the brake lights coming on? bit dangerous if that's the case?
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Brake lights come on, not that you should go buy that in general as Motorbikes have strong engine braking which don't activate brake lights.
 
Glaucus said:
also you can not compare an ev battery pack to a phone or laptop. phones/laptops etc don't have good BMS or cooling. two things that kill batteries, operating out of temp range and fully charging-discharging. something phones/laptops do not protect against but things like tesla very much do.
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it remains the same underlying battery technology though.
(like for phone batteries, not mentioning apple) is there any evidence of 'sand-bagging' where there maybe redundant cells/ excess capacity which allow the warranty to be satisfied but may give a rapid decline beyond that - have you seen a good analysis/tear down report ?
quick charging mechanims too, are these benign
 
jpaul said:
it remains the same underlying battery technology though.
(like for phone batteries, not mentioning apple) is there any evidence of 'sand-bagging' where there maybe redundant cells/ excess capacity which allow the warranty to be satisfied but may give a rapid decline beyond that - have you seen a good analysis/tear down report ?
quick charging mechanims too, are these benign
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They are not comparable at all. The differences due to BMS and cooling/heating system makes a massive difference. As do the cell chemistry depending what they use.
So stop talking nonsense and using irtelavent comparisons. Data for Tesla battery packs have allready been posted.
And yes actual battery size even in a leaf is larger than the usable.
 
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The I-pace looks like a great car that should start at about 35K and go up to about 50K, fully specced up.

It's also a bit baffling why they didn't switch the names around of the E-pace and I-pace.
 
SUV version of the XF is F Pace
SUV sized version of the XE is E Pace
I Pace loosely links to the I-Type formula E car.

Previous point on sandbagging.... Too expensive and space inefficient to do that on a car. Not sure why resident google would know anyway.
 
Glaucus said:
They are not comparable at all. The differences due to BMS and cooling/heating system makes a massive difference. As do the cell chemistry depending what they use.
So stop talking nonsense and using irtelavent comparisons. Data for Tesla battery packs have allready been posted.
And yes actual battery size even in a leaf is larger than the usable.
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(facts maketh ...) so no evidence they use a different chemistry contrary
battery management and, albeit, passive cooling is complex for mobile phones too.
and unlocking they did in 2017 is testament to reserve, they have produced portable battery packes with their older 18650 cell.
The previous data https://steinbuch.wordpress.com/2015/01/24/tesla-model-s-battery-degradation-data/ did not cover it
 
Jonnycoupe said:
That lag was odd, I haven’t seen that delay in anything I’ve driven. Range Rover Velar is pretty much what’s in this as you have the configurable dials too, just different GUI layers and skin.

Terrible to have limited control on the climate system though, I’m forever tweaking that AUTO 21C setting....
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Just to backup Jonny here, my F-type has the older gen infotainment system which is a little laggy, but nothing to the point where its annoying to use and the old system is also great that every menu has a button you can press too so your not fumbling with a touchscreen which makes accessing different areas easy and quick whilst driving.

A guy here at OcUK has a new XE and my uncle has a new XF, both have the pro version and are the latest versions, by comparison I find using these are nearly realtime responsive, practically no lag present at all backing up what Jonny says about that lag being odd.
 
Glaucus said:
Translate to English. Or are you just posting more nonsense.
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I believe the insinuation is that Tesla were sandbagging the 60kWh model by using a 25% larger battery, meaning all user-submitted data on degredation is called in to question.

Problem is, it's nonsense. Tesla offered an aftermarket upgrade to 75kWh via software unlock. If the extra 15kWh was being used to sandbag the original capacity, it would have been very noticeable at the point of upgrade or during the free Hurricane unlock period. Your usable capacity would increase by some way short of 15kWh.
 
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jpaul said:
it remains the same underlying battery technology though.
(like for phone batteries, not mentioning apple) is there any evidence of 'sand-bagging' where there maybe redundant cells/ excess capacity which allow the warranty to be satisfied but may give a rapid decline beyond that - have you seen a good analysis/tear down report ?
quick charging mechanims too, are these benign
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That EV batteries last longer than smartphone batteries is an observable fact. 2018 marks the tenth anniversary of the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Roadster, the sixth anniversary of the Model S, and the fifth anniversary of the Renault Zoe and BMW i3. So there's no shortage of data around. You're asking the complete wrong question. I'm driving around in a four year old Leaf with around 90% of the original capacity remaining, which clearly isn't something anyone would expect of a smartphone at this age. The question isn't "Do EV batteries last longer?" but "Why do EV batteries last longer?".

Take a Tesla P100D and an iPhone X. The iPhone X has a battery consisting of two cells. It'll generally end the day with <15% charge remaining, before being charged back up to 100% overnight. The Tesla has a battery consisting of 8,256 cells. Let's assume a user who drives twice the national average, and round that up to 50 miles per day. That's about 15% of the battery's charge. The battery in the Tesla will be charged less often, and likely from a higher State of Charge.

The car is charged less frequently than the phone, meaning fewer cycles across a fixed amount of time. The depth of discharge should be lower as there's no sensible reason to run the car down to <15% SoC, meaning improved cell health. And in the event a cell fails, the P100D loses 0.04 miles of range, whereas the iPhone loses approximately half its battery capacity. The end result is a battery that has a much longer useful life than the ~20 months of a smartphone battery, as evidenced by the fact that there are many EVs on the road that are much older than this.
 
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Jaguar interiors just aren't anything special these days, since the release of the XE.

That looks hideously bland minus the bottom half of the centre console

F-Type is the only car in the Jag lineup that still has a lovely interior.
 
satchef1 said:
That EV batteries last longer than smartphone batteries is an observable fact. 2018 marks the tenth anniversary of the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Roadster, the sixth anniversary of the Model S, and the fifth anniversary of the Renault Zoe and BMW i3. So there's no shortage of data around. You're asking the complete wrong question. I'm driving around in a four year old Leaf with around 90% of the original capacity remaining, which clearly isn't something anyone would expect of a smartphone at this age. The question isn't "Do EV batteries last longer?" but "Why do EV batteries last longer?".

Take a Tesla P100D and an iPhone X. The iPhone X has a battery consisting of two cells. It'll generally end the day with <15% charge remaining, before being charged back up to 100% overnight. The Tesla has a battery consisting of 8,256 cells. Let's assume a user who drives twice the national average, and round that up to 50 miles per day. That's about 15% of the battery's charge. The battery in the Tesla will be charged less often, and likely from a higher State of Charge.

The car is charged less frequently than the phone, meaning fewer cycles across a fixed amount of time. The depth of discharge should be lower as there's no sensible reason to run the car down to <15% SoC, meaning improved cell health. And in the event a cell fails, the P100D loses 0.04 miles of range, whereas the iPhone loses approximately half its battery capacity. The end result is a battery that has a much longer useful life than the ~20 months of a smartphone battery, as evidenced by the fact that there are many EVs on the road that are much older than this.
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I don't dispute DoD is reduced on the Tesla vs phones, the statistics indicate that even folks with a large commute do not show significant capacity degradation.
Reviewing the university video from the steinbuch data he also discusses
(a) Nissan Note failure/class-action due to no thermal management, and benefit to lifespan of controlling the duration of charge/discharge and the temperature,
which correlates with increased longevity of batteries if you have a supercharger (from earlier data link.)
(b) moreover - benefits of the battery additives to stop irreversible electrode plating, this in his example gave the Commercial company a benefit of >10x cycles to failure, versus vanilla battery implementations they had at the University. (Tesla work with Panasonic so with technology transfer should probably mean theirs are the ones too have in portable electronics)
 
Those I Pace don’t have production builds for infotainment. Explains the response in video I hope.

In terms of interior quality.
XE and family are poor, I PACE better but E Pace has really moved it on thankfully.
 
Frontal area probably cancels most of that difference, plus how and when the active games are open on the cooling systems.

Interesting times regardless.
 
satchef1 said:
I believe the insinuation is that Tesla were sandbagging the 60kWh model by using a 25% larger battery, meaning all user-submitted data on degredation is called in to question.
Problem is, it's nonsense. Tesla offered an aftermarket upgrade to 75kWh via software unlock. If the extra 15kWh was being used to sandbag the original capacity, it would have been very noticeable at the point of upgrade or during the free Hurricane unlock period. Your usable capacity would increase by some way short of 15kWh.
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Yes - correct - unlocking was an example of hidden capacity and begging the question on what techniques Tesla, and maybe I-Pace might employ .. my curiosity
(... techniques for redundancy/error/wear correction not being an anathema in computer hardware domain - eg dram, ssd, hdds)

I'll write long hand next time - thats's what texting does for you.
 
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