Jaguar I-Pace Thread

The I-pace looks like a great car that should start at about 35K and go up to about 50K, fully specced up.

It's also a bit baffling why they didn't switch the names around of the E-pace and I-pace.

I think that goes back to the point I made in the Tesla thread. You’re basically paying an extra £20k+ for it being electric. Economically that makes it make no sense as you’ll never make the money back in fuel savings.

Maybe that’s more evidence to the idea this is a halo product designed to test the concept and only sell low volume.
 
You aren't going to get a 395bhp, 4WD Jaguar car with that spec that will do 0-60 in 4.5 secs for £35k. F-Pace Prestige 300PS is £45k with 0-60 in 5.7s, and I doubt the spec has the tech etc that the I-Pace has.

There will be a premium, but it's not that much.
 
I think that goes back to the point I made in the Tesla thread. You’re basically paying an extra £20k+ for it being electric. Economically that makes it make no sense as you’ll never make the money back in fuel savings.

Maybe that’s more evidence to the idea this is a halo product designed to test the concept and only sell low volume.

That and they will probably lose money still on each one they make :(
 
You aren't going to get a 395bhp, 4WD Jaguar car with that spec that will do 0-60 in 4.5 secs for £35k. F-Pace Prestige 300PS is £45k with 0-60 in 5.7s, and I doubt the spec has the tech etc that the I-Pace has.

There will be a premium, but it's not that much.

0-60 is a bit of a poor comparison tool, because the torque provided by electric motors means it’s much easier to get fast acceleration.

Look at the base and top end models and compare, it’s about as close as you’re going to get to be able to directly compare an ICE vehicle with an electric vehicle.

Which models have leather seats, the higher end sound system, the similar toys and finish, then compare prices between those. The extra cost of a slightly bigger motor is going to be minimal against the cost of the batteries (relatively fixed as they need that amount for range regardless of motor power).

That said I’m sure as long as they’re happy selling small numbers there may be a bit of quasi price gouging in there too. Because of what it is they know they can charge more (especially given the competition). Whether that increased price actually covers the cost is another question!
 
I think that goes back to the point I made in the Tesla thread. You’re basically paying an extra £20k+ for it being electric. Economically that makes it make no sense as you’ll never make the money back in fuel savings.

Maybe that’s more evidence to the idea this is a halo product designed to test the concept and only sell low volume.

I see F Pace V6D as a start for comparison.
 
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Saw an I Pace on the M40 Southbound today on the way back from Redditch. Actually really liked the look of it, I think JLR have done a good job on the design.

Now if they can bring their user interface into the modern age to compete with the best from BMW etc they’d have a winning package I’m sure!
 
0-60 is a bit of a poor comparison tool, because the torque provided by electric motors means it’s much easier to get fast acceleration.

It's faster because it's more powerful, there's an extra 95PS over the F-Type I cited earlier.

People get confused over torque, power and acceleration. Power is really all that matters, in any situation. It's the rate of doing work. To accelerate a particular mass to a particular final speed, you need to be able to create a certain acceleration, for which you need to be able to generate a certain level of force.

There is a relationship between power and torque, but it's not especially relevant. All that matters is the amount of power that can be generated. It doesn't matter whether an electric motor has an advantage at low revs. Do you stay at very low revs when performing a 0-60 test? Of course not, you utilise the full range of the engine.

If the power curve was flatter, that would help, but of course this isn't possible and even if it were, there would be no point turning at ever higher revolution rates just to develop the same amount of power!

Aside from all that, 0-60 is very often a valid comparison figure, and sub-5 secs is normally a different league from "typical" models. Personally, I don't care that much. I don't need or desire that kind of acceleration.
 
It's also a side effect of the battery size.

The greater the range, the faster the car. Hence why a Model 3 with the long range battery pack will go faster than the standard one. Mechanically there is no difference between the two.
 
It's also a side effect of the battery size.

The greater the range, the faster the car. Hence why a Model 3 with the long range battery pack will go faster than the standard one. Mechanically there is no difference between the two.

That makes no sense. There must be some sort of programming that allows the battery to supply higher power levels for longer if this is the case?
 
Not really. The battery will be likely designed for a certain output voltage, so as you add more capacity the thing that changes is the maximum amount of current that the battery pack can deliver, which in turn will make the car accelerate faster.
 
You might seen continuous ratings of battery’s at 5C. That means the cells can discharge 5 times their capacity current.

Ie 60kWh battery can be 300kW Power, motors and port electronics of course sized appropriately

Rating also based on peak which might be as high as 10C for sub 30s periods. This is where a larger pack enables the motor full power and sustains it further into the battery DoD. (depth of discharge) Ideal for acceleration. As the battery gets lower state of charge the voltage reduces so to maintain power more current is demanded which is where the cell C rating matters.

High speed running requires good continuous levels, low internal resistance to minimise heat and a good cooling system to dump the heat from the car. I can see mainstream OEMs executing this better and something Porsche have made statement on with the mission E crossover concept. Of course 800V helps as the current then is lower for the same power demand.
 
It's faster because it's more powerful, there's an extra 95PS over the F-Type I cited earlier.

People get confused over torque, power and acceleration. Power is really all that matters, in any situation. It's the rate of doing work. To accelerate a particular mass to a particular final speed, you need to be able to create a certain acceleration, for which you need to be able to generate a certain level of force.

There is a relationship between power and torque, but it's not especially relevant. All that matters is the amount of power that can be generated. It doesn't matter whether an electric motor has an advantage at low revs. Do you stay at very low revs when performing a 0-60 test? Of course not, you utilise the full range of the engine.

If the power curve was flatter, that would help, but of course this isn't possible and even if it were, there would be no point turning at ever higher revolution rates just to develop the same amount of power!

Aside from all that, 0-60 is very often a valid comparison figure, and sub-5 secs is normally a different league from "typical" models. Personally, I don't care that much. I don't need or desire that kind of acceleration.

You’re missing the point.

I understand it’s more powerful, but power and torque cannot be compared directly between ICE and EV.

In an ICE engine to increase them you need larger engines/turbos etc, which usually mean more complexity and greater fuel usage, even when not using the full power.

In an EV all you need is a larger motor with (essentially) a few more coils, more cells and slightly different power management system. You don’t loose efficiency like you do in an ICE engine, you don’t need more complexity.

The number of cells is usually a function of range, with the additional benefit of longer range vehicles being able to provide more instantaneous power as Vincent mentioned. The equivalent in an ICE vehicle would be doubling the size of the fuel tank and pump somehow making the engine more powerful. Obviously that doesn’t work with ICE, but does with EV.

The incremental cost of power in construction and cost of ownership (fuel efficiency and repairs) is minimal in EV relative to ICE, hence why Tesla’s can have such extreme acceleration and power, when they’re not really sports cars.

Basically power and range can be considered inverse in EVs to ICE. More power available in an ICE means less range, more power available in an EV is a (in part) byproduct of range.

It’s likely a longer range model of the I Pace will be released in future, and it will probably have more power as a byproduct. With ICE you choose a vehicle based on engine size a lot of the time, with EV the choice will be more a function of range.

Edit. It’s also worth looking at the torque and power curves of the Model S, it’s very different to what you’d expect from an ICE engine. Torque is actually flat from 0 up to about 5000 RPM (because it’s limited) which gives a linear power curve as well. That’s unlike an ICE engine where you need to get to a few thousand RPM to get to peak torque.
 
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Fair points, but the end result is that the consumer gains. Power and acceleration figures aren't any less meaningful just because they might be easier to come by. Maybe in a few years when there's much more competition, it may emerge that the I-Pace is poor value.

I'm positive that with the R&D required, JLR will be at best breaking even with this model, and very likely be losing money on each one sold, just to establish themselves in the EV market.
 
Yes, but PHEV and EV's are quite different

If I had £85,000 and wanted an EV SUV I'd probably get the X.

If I just wanted something luxurious I'd consider the Range Rover.
 
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A simple explanation as to why EVs with long range will generally accelerate faster. Lifted from a CAR magazine article on Lucid Motors.

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Mrs is eagerly awaiting a test drive for the I-PACE, we nearly pre-ordered one, but I didn't think it was a great idea without seeing if you like the drive of the car. I have to say, I do like the interior space on offer and the fact it is not absolutely huge on the outside. We should have moved house by the time we get it (if we do), and we'll have a nice solar array, and a Tesla Powerwall 2 in the property, no going back to ICE after the next car.
 
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