Why not? He did it with Pogba & Morrison recently and Wes Brown in the past. Not to mention he told the world Rooney wouldn't sign a new contract.
We're not ignoring it, just commenting on the rumours
Well dont
** January Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **
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Why not? He did it with Pogba & Morrison recently and Wes Brown in the past. Not to mention he told the world Rooney wouldn't sign a new contract.
Well dont
Caporegime
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that's not the way it reads, if he said "'Trm' is it that hard to read your posts..." it would have made sense, otherwise it implies he is addressing welbeck himself.
All the above I would think he probably wouldn't have been too worried about getting rid of, with the exception of Rooney. Pretty sure he's savvy enough to treat each case a little differently, and if he thought telling everyone he wont sign was a good idea, he probably would. In this case, he's probably thinking Wellbeck will be their main striker in years to come, we don't want someone waving 75k a week in front of his nose right now.
Why offer those players a contract then if he wasn't fussed about keeping them around? I'm also pretty sure he doesn't want to see either Pogba or Morrison leave.
Fergie's way of dealing with problematic agents and players asking for more money than the club is willing to pay is bang on, make it public knowledge and thus put the onus on the player & agent to play ball and make it clear the club wont be held to ransom.
If Fergie says there's no problem with Welbeck's contract only a week after admitting Morrison had rejected the clubs offer which in turn was only weeks after admitting Pogba had done the same then that's good enough for me.
Caporegime
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Well you noticed to major things there, he talked about Morrison AFTER he REJECTED the contract, not during negotiations.
When Fergie wants to talk to the press, it will be to GAIN an advantage in negotiations. Quite right that while Welbeck isn't close to worth 60k a week, Fergie has decided to both, start him ahead of a 150k a week striker frequently and also play him alongside a 250k a week striker, Fergie/Utd are in the weak position here and Fergie talking about it publically won't help. Shaming a non first teamer but potentially making him embarrassed to ask for so much and everyone tell him he's an idiot might force his hand and make him sign a contract lower than the one he wants. With Morrison he's not first team, Fergie has all the power, entirely different situation.
Anyway, welbeck, average player, better with Rooney, not even close, better in the ridiculous system they are using, maybe.
IE Rooney "up top" with berbatov behind him would be far and away, by a massive margin their best offensive setup. Rooney as a deep player and almost a playmaker, is almost retarded, and Berbatov isn't really the type of player to feed off scraps and the kind of largely useless balls Rooney provides and the isolation a striker playing with Rooney in that kind of setup causes.
Welbeck isn't a patch on Berbatov.
Overall though, when you put a player on 250k, EVERYONE from the next best player(or the several better players ) to the worst player suddenly thinks they deserve more. If the bottom of the run was getting 5k , middle 50k, while Rooney got 150k, when Rooney gets 250k, the bottom guys now want 15k and the middle guys want 75k.
When Fergie wants to talk to the press, it will be to GAIN an advantage in negotiations. Quite right that while Welbeck isn't close to worth 60k a week, Fergie has decided to both, start him ahead of a 150k a week striker frequently and also play him alongside a 250k a week striker, Fergie/Utd are in the weak position here and Fergie talking about it publically won't help. Shaming a non first teamer but potentially making him embarrassed to ask for so much and everyone tell him he's an idiot might force his hand and make him sign a contract lower than the one he wants. With Morrison he's not first team, Fergie has all the power, entirely different situation.
Anyway, welbeck, average player, better with Rooney, not even close, better in the ridiculous system they are using, maybe.
IE Rooney "up top" with berbatov behind him would be far and away, by a massive margin their best offensive setup. Rooney as a deep player and almost a playmaker, is almost retarded, and Berbatov isn't really the type of player to feed off scraps and the kind of largely useless balls Rooney provides and the isolation a striker playing with Rooney in that kind of setup causes.
Welbeck isn't a patch on Berbatov.
Overall though, when you put a player on 250k, EVERYONE from the next best player(or the several better players
) to the worst player suddenly thinks they deserve more. If the bottom of the run was getting 5k , middle 50k, while Rooney got 150k, when Rooney gets 250k, the bottom guys now want 15k and the middle guys want 75k.
DM raises a good point, Welbeck looks at Rooney and Berbatov's wages and thinks, I'm playing almost as good as those two, gimme some of that. It's why City have 5 players who aren't even in the squad on stupid, stupid wages and why Cahill wanted £100k off Chelsea. Once you start paying mental wages it's a slippery slope. That's why I'm quite happy for Arsenal to retain our wage structure, even if it means letting RvP go next year. Can't really offer RvP £150k and expect the rest of the squad to do nothing, their agents will be rubbing their hands.
Man Utd have suffered really for allowing Rooney to take their pants down last year, Ferguson is trying to look strong but we all know what happened, especially the players.
Man Utd have suffered really for allowing Rooney to take their pants down last year, Ferguson is trying to look strong but we all know what happened, especially the players.
The rumours were that Welbeck had REJECTED (see my caps button works as well) a contract. Seems the fact of the matter is he hasn't and there's no problem with the negotiations.
What weak position? For one Fergie would never let contract negotiations effect his team selections (he didn't with Rio back in 2004 and he didn't with Keane back in 2000). For two even if he did you make it sound like we've got no other options other than Welbeck yet at the same time as you said we've got Berbatov and Hernandez who could easily come into the side if Fergie was to let off the field contract negotiations effect on the pitch matters. We're not in any weak position.
Oh and Rooney isn't on 250k a week
We did Rooney and Berbatov last season and it didn't work. Our best performances over the last 1 1/2 years have been with Rooney playing with Hernandez or Welbeck.
And ridiculous system? What a standard 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 with plenty of interchange with Welbeck and Nani able to change positions at will? Yeah that's insane isn't it, we should absolutely definitely stick with Berbatov in his one static position and hope defenders cant handle him that'll be much better than a team with plenty of movement and pace :/
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Hasn't Morrison denied that he's been offered a new contract by Utd? Also, I seem to remember half way through Tevez's last season with you, Ferguson claimed that Tevez rejected your contract offer, which Tevez claimed he never recieved any offer at that time.
Whether Taggart is telling the truth or lying in each individual situation is hard to know but clubs/managers and players say things for good reason. Players want it to look as if they're being forced out and the club want to make it look like the player is either being unreasonable with his demands and/or looking to move.
Morrison has denied he's rejected anything yes but unless the club are lying and dont want him around anymore (in which case why not accept Newcastle's bid) why hasn't a contract been signed? There is plenty of conjecture as to when his current deal is even to expire (as with Pogba's) so it may be a case the player has another year and a half to go and so there's not really any urgency one way or the other. Assuming he is out of contract in the summer though something's stalling the deal and I find it hard to believe it's us not offering a contract.
As for Tevez, meh we'll never know the ins and outs of that one but he's hardly the trustworthy type is he. I'm sure some effort was made to keep him although if you're right and City paid 47m for him it's no surprise he didn't stay with us
Because of the (relatively) new laws on compensation for players under 21, there's little urgency from Utd's point of view to sell Morrison now rather than the summer. Even if Morrison was to leave on a bosman, Utd would still receive a development fee from whoever takes him and that could be worth several hundred thousand pounds, if not millions (depending on how well Utd can justify his value). From what I've read, the decision not to accept Newcastle's offer was because Utd wanted clauses in his deal so that they don't completely lose out if he fulfills his potential.
And the £47m City may have paid for Tevez wasn't relevant to Utd. David Gill confirmed that you only had to pay a further £25.5m on top of what you had already paid to loan him, for the deal to become permanent.
Utd confirmed that they took up that option at the end of the season but that Tevez chose City instead. Utd confirming this is just another example of what I was saying about clubs wanting to shift the blame onto players. By the end of the season, it was clear to everybody that because of what was said between Tevez and Fergie that Tevez was never staying however Utd wanted to protect themselves from any criticism from the 'Fergie Fergie Sign Him Up' brigade.
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I take your point about the compensation we'd receive if we dont sell now and he is out of contract in the summer, I'm not convinced that we'd get more than the £500,000 Newcastle are offering now for him though. Like you said it all depends on how we can justify his potential and whether or not his off the field issues are taken into consideration (I'll admit I have no idea how it's determined).
Sky seems to think that Roma are going to offer the same amount and we'll accept, not that they're a foolproof source of course but I guess selling him abroad would always be more attractive than to another PL side.
All Morrison has actually said today is that he hasn't rejected varying amounts of money from the club and tbf Fergie never mentioned wage either he just said that Morrison's demands were unrealistic, that could be anything from guaranteed games to image rights. I'm sure given the way he's thought off inside the club and the fact he's a local lad cooler minds will eventually prevail (hopefully)
Caporegime
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Seriously reading comprehension sucks on this forum.
You suggest you're not in a weak position because you have Hernandez and Berbatov..... while previously stating that Fergie clearly prefers to start Welbeck.......... here's a hint, the weak position is Fergie prefers playing Welbeck to the other two. Thats like saying negotiating with Rooney was easy because there were two other strikers at the club who could play. He's the prefered partner to Rooney so he has a strong bargaining position and Welbeck knows Fergie prefers him to two guys on far higher wages..... Fergie is in the weak position.
Stupid system..... playing a guy whose only "great" year as a striker was playing as the front man with other strikers behind him, and constantly having Rooney playing crap in the withdrawn striker position..... is stupid. Playing Welbeck because he makes a better front man than Berbatov rather than playing Rooney there and Berbatov behind him...... is stupid.
Arsenal could play a 4-4-2, with Vermaelen upfront, RVP in defence and Theo in goal. If I wanted to say FORMATION I would have said FORMATION, I said SYSTEM for a reason.
Since when isn't Rooney on 250k a week, every report seems to suggest he is, every news story on his new contract, and his fine for missing training was both apparently a weeks wages, and 250k...... but they aren't linked at all. (to be fair I see it listed as anything from 200 to 250k, meh).
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That suggests that Welbeck suddenly after half a season thinks he's untouchable whereas the fact is his position in the team is actually under more threat than anyone due to the strength in depth we've got up front. So again no, we're not in a weak position in terms of negotiations whatsoever because Welbeck's position in the team is far from guaranteed, he's in the team at the moment but a few poor games he'll be dropped and Hernandez will be back in.
I love your argument that Rooney has only had one good season so he must be played in that same position to get the best of him.... remind me when was Berbatov's last great season? I guess that would be last year when well what do you know he played as the furthest forward.
sorry imo thats a terrible excuse
Not after 1/2 season, however good he is (given he hasnt been at the top level before)
Even despite his season at Sunderland I dont see Welbeck's demands as being any more stupid than Morrison's to be fair (£30k ~/week given his tiny amount of experience would be a good deal for both parties, even if there is an agreement to move upto £40k/week after 18 months/2 years if x targets are reached)
Welbeck doesnt know how lucky he is if he really is demanding £45k a or some such stupid amount, otherwise Chicharito MUST be worth £90k /week just from last season's personal success. Sorry but thats ridiculous
I saw figures stated of Smalling / Jones being on £35k/week and Cleverley on £25k /week - obviosuly no idea at all how accurute these are (I can appreciate Smalling after his performances last season being consistantly good is on a reasonable wage - and Cleverley only just joined the senior team so thats a reasonable "encouraging" wage imo - However good he is (and he has been brilliant apart from (amusingly) as a centre half, Jones Im not so sure about being so high straight off.
Im very glad SAF is putting his foot down with Welbeck (hopefully will make Pogba and Morrison , let alone Welbeck himself) think again about their demands
Pretty frustrated at Liverpools transfer policy in this window (reserve the right to change this post if we make a large purchase).
We're desperately in need of a forward and Defoe has stated he has no intention of leaving. We have a chance to be bold and bolster our forward line and KD coming out saying we don't need improving is slightly worrying.
We're desperately in need of a forward and Defoe has stated he has no intention of leaving. We have a chance to be bold and bolster our forward line and KD coming out saying we don't need improving is slightly worrying.
He is being blind which is whats annoying me even more after games its same excuse we use, Hell fact according to KD Downing is better than he thought is laughable he has been poor since joining us and we could have signed better players
Only Henderson/Enrique are coming good transfers for us imo, We need 2 GOOD wingers as Kuyt/Maxi/Bellamy wont last long and fact Bellamy out of them three is playing the best.
As you said a striker is needed also since Kuyt if upfront does sod all and has all year, Carroll is just not doing well but i think that is not entirely his fault its partly ours imo
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