Japanese Grand Prix 2010, Suzuka - Race 16/19

I think people are being unfair to button this time. It's hard to say what pace he had when he was on the wrong tyre for so long. Hamilton outqualified him because of the tyre not because of some stellar pace.

It was simply a bad call by Button.

Funny how the overtaking god with all his extra pace and button on the wrong tyre never once had a look at passing him.

I think people are being unfair on webbers ability too, he was never far off Vettels pace and they clearly have an agreement now that once the pitstops are done they manage the cars pace. That red bull had another half second of race pace in the last third of the race that we never even got to see.

They backed off by a margin and still had everyone pegged.

Webber himself hinted at the rules about why he didn't have a go.
 
sunama said:
Webber
As for Webber: I think it would quite embarrassing if somebody of his ability won the title this year. He certainly is not of the same calibre of MSc, Senna, Prost, Hamilton, Button, etc. If Webber wins the title, I feel that the title would be devalued somewhat.
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I wouldn't say Webber winning the championship would be any worse than Button doing so last year, the champion is usually the guy in the best car and this year it's Vettel/Webber, he's been lucky many times this year but then most champions are generally lucky.

I feel the title would be devalued if Alonso won it by fewer than 7pts, at least Webber has earned every single one of his points.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
Funny how the overtaking god with all his extra pace and button on the wrong tyre never once had a look at passing him.
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Overtaking at Suzuka is very difficult. To overtake someone in the same car as you is nigh on impossible, unless the guy in front makes a mistake. The best example of that we saw today was when MSc who was on brand spanking new tyres, simply couldnt make it past Rosberg who was on worn tyres. It was plain to see that MSc was at least 1s/lap faster during those laps, but overtaking still proved impossible.

Webber commented today that once you are in the dirty air behind the driver in front, it is impossible to do anything about it. This was the reason why he didnt even bother trying as he knew that track position was the more important than outright speed.
 
mmj_uk said:
I wouldn't say Webber winning the championship would be any worse than Button doing so last year,
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Button won 6 out of 7 races last year, in the first half of the season. That in itself deserves the title. Any driver who has achieved that feat has every right to win the title.

Furthermore, Button has gone on this year, to prove that he can at least hang on Hamilton.

Webber on the other hand is Vettel's whipping boy. Vettel beats him whenever he wants to. The only thing that stops Vettel from beating Webber in every race, is his own impatience and stupidity.

mmj_uk said:
I feel the title would be devalued if Alonso won it by fewer than 7pts, at least Webber has earned every single one of his points.
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If Alonso won the title, he would have done it in the 2nd or 3rd best car of the year. The RBR is by far the best car and if Alonso beats them to the title, it will be one heck of an achievement. Out of all the non-RBR drivers, Alonso is the only one right now who is giving them a fight. Everybody else is falling away.
 
sunama said:
Overtaking at Suzuka is very difficult. To overtake someone in the same car as you is nigh on impossible, unless the guy in front makes a mistake. The best example of that we saw today was when MSc who was on brand spanking new tyres, simply couldnt make it past Rosberg who was on worn tyres. It was plain to see that MSc was at least 1s/lap faster during those laps, but overtaking still proved impossible.

Webber commented today that once you are in the dirty air behind the driver in front, it is impossible to do anything about it. This was the reason why he didnt even bother trying as he knew that track position was the more important than outright speed.
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A poor excuse that had the roles been reversed everyone would be bringing up. Hamilton was what 2 seconds faster once he was released and Kobi did a fine job of showing what he could do. They weren't in a scenario where the cars where the same, Button was losing a mass of time being on the hard tyre.

Personally I think he should have moved over and the chance to call in the favour would come round soon enough.

Webber didn't try because he clearly wasn't allowed to and secondly he is now playing the percentage game.

How short your memory is regarding Webber outperforming Vettel and would have been the only driver this year to win 3 on the trot had it not been for his team mate.
 
Said it once before but I knew this weekend would click for Vettel now, I reckon he'll run away with it from now on. Shame however about Kubica, would have been a pretty serious title knock for Webber had he stayed in position. Funny weekend for wheel failures!
 
sunama said:
Button won 6 out of 7 races last year, in the first half of the season. That in itself deserves the title. Any driver who has achieved that feat has every right to win the title.
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So beating Rubens "number two driver" Barrichello a few times is a feat and deserving of the title? :p

The first half of 2009 was a complete joke Brawn dominated so badly, it was like watching Schumacher at Ferrari again until Red Bull caught up mid-season, Button struggled the latter half of the season (much like this season) after Brawn lost their dominance.

sunama said:
Furthermore, Button has gone on this year, to prove that he can at least hang on Hamilton.
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He was nearly 40pts behind Hamilton prior to Monza, it's only two acts of stupidity from Hamilton and poor reliability today that has allowed Button to even get within three points.

Hamilton has been outperforming him nearly all season in qualifying, Button is consistent but seems to lack raw pace.

sunama said:
Webber on the other hand is Vettel's whipping boy. Vettel beats him whenever he wants to. The only thing that stops Vettel from beating Webber in every race, is his own impatience and stupidity.
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Impatience and stupidity doesn't win titles though, which is why Webber is where he is and why Vettel/Hamilton aren't on nearly as much points.
 
mmj_uk said:
Impatience and stupidity doesn't win titles though, which is why Webber is where he is and why Vettel/Hamilton aren't on nearly as much points.
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It's a fine line though isn't it. Webber was lucky to not lose his front right and eliminate himself from Singapore. Instead he finished his closest rivals race. I'd say that was stupid, because the percentages of surviving that hit are slim, but it paid off..
 
Way I see it is you're either a consistent driver (Button) or you're aggressive (Hamilton) Buttons consistency with a clearly overpowered car last season gave him the lead he needed so later on when the rest of the grid slowly caught up Buttons consistent average drives kept him in front. He's had no such luck with the car this season and hes been averagely doing his thing, I doubt he'll see a WDC title again but Hamilton on the other hand, his driving style pays off more than it fails and its better to watch! I think of Vettel and Webber as being the exact same driving combo, Webber is a little more consistent and Vettel is on edge aggressive punching in amazing qually times for example.
 
Indeed. You need both in a good team in my opinion. One driver to be mr consistent and always bring it home and get some points, and the other to be hugely quick and pull off moments of genius but at a greater risk.
 
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