Also, I feel pretty bad for Massa, Alonso pretty much towers over him now within Ferrari he must know the axe is looming? Ferraris position in the constructors pretty much sums up the Ferrari partnership, If Massa was prodding in decent finishes it'd be just as tight as the WDC title is as it stands.
Japanese Grand Prix 2010, Suzuka - Race 16/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
That's called a No.1 and No.2 system.
Your No.2 driver's job is to be the the "steadie eddie" and to help win the Constructors' Title.
Your No.1 driver is the guy who's responsibility it is to score the lions share of the points. Most of the responsibility rests on this guy's shoulders. The upside is that the No.1 driver gets preferential treatment.
Now RBR tried to give their No.1 driver preferential treatment, but when they did, they ballsed it up and it became a PR disaster.
IMO McLaren have the strongest pairing. They have the joint best No.1 driver (IMO), along with the best No.2 driver. The problem with their No.1 is that he is suffering with some very bad luck of late and as a result is going backwards in the championship.
RBR's and Ferrari's No.1 drivers are now hitting the front. Vettel is gradually usurping Webber, while Alonso is moving further and further away from No.2 in the points standings.
The top boss of Ferrari has categorically stated that Massa will be at Ferrari next year.
Well that was a very very good race! (like most have been this season) The track looks as good as ever to drive (I can see why the drivers seem to love it and as a fan I love it too) ans the race it self I found to be very enjoyable to watch (especially as the previous one wasnt as entertaining). I was impressed to see Vettel actually put together a real race win and Webber to play the percentage game that a second place is worth a fair bit more to his championship than a DNF...
The other two positives really were for Schumacher having a really good race for once and Kobyashi really showing that he has a fair bit of talent (and could well be a future race winner with the aggressive and impressive overtaking).
Hope Korea is exciting!
The other two positives really were for Schumacher having a really good race for once and Kobyashi really showing that he has a fair bit of talent (and could well be a future race winner with the aggressive and impressive overtaking).
Hope Korea is exciting!
Amazing how fast Hamilton fans forget everyone elses bad luck this year, as though it's just poor old lewis that has had any bad luck and reliability issues.
Some of his bad luck has been his own doing, he's certainly been better and faster than Button when the car has been difficult for Button but Button has got far more out of his first season than I expected alongside Hamilton. Either Buttons better than I thought or Hamilton isn't as good as I thought.
He is getting loads of critism in Italy for not being fast enough to back up and take points away from Alonsos rivals. I think Massa actually wants out, hence the team saying he will definately be staying. He's not happy with the role and fair play to him for not just taking it like the others but Alonso loves him because he's a bit crap. He will be far happier with Massa than Kubica. Kubica is just desperate for a good car regardless of it being career suicide to go alongside Alonso.
Associate
You can't have it both ways! Webber has not been nearly as outclasses this season as you make out. He has out-qualified Vettel several times and has won MORE races. Vettel has had some reliability issues, but equally he's taken himself out several times by his own idiocy.
I think Vettel is generally a better driver than Webber, but not by much. His ability is over-stated and he has done nothing to indicate that he is the equal of Hammilton/Alonso. To say that Vettal is a top-line driver while Webber is an embarassment is, frankly, ridiculous.
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Associate
I think Red Bull should ditch Webber and Vettel. Their performance advantage has masked their driver's mediocrity.
They should replace them with Kobyashi and Kubica
They should replace them with Kobyashi and Kubica
well webber was always only ever a "good" driver nothing special and he pretty much can match vettel the suposed messiah....
i honestly believe the red bull flatters them a lot.
on ferrari i dont understand why anyway with any real speed would want to be #2 its obvious nothing has changed they still only want one driver, atleast at red bull and mclaren as #2 you could atleast have a chance of beating your teammate
i honestly believe the red bull flatters them a lot.
on ferrari i dont understand why anyway with any real speed would want to be #2 its obvious nothing has changed they still only want one driver, atleast at red bull and mclaren as #2 you could atleast have a chance of beating your teammate
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Hmm not sure I agree, as Vettel was clearly the chosen one to win and webber was supposed to yeild. Then they control Mclarens with fuel orders.
At this race there was clearly a pact to race until a certain point.
There are still strict orders at those teams regarding control of who wins and how.
Myself I'd rather they raced each other hard lights to flag but when ferrari adopted the one car system others have had to follow suit to counter or lose titles.
I prefer to see something like Oz, Portugal or Montreal 96 where the two williams went head to head at full pelt for the race win. 96 would have been a dull season had MS and Ferrari had the best car because there where no serious challengers. MS would have won while his team mate deferred. Atleast with williams they let them get on with it.
Soldato
At the start of last year, Button was seen as a journeyman that had a couple more seasons before wandering off to GT. He got a great car with trick bits and won. Webber is in the same position this year. To say the championship would be devalued if he won the title is a bit silly.
He seemed to suggest as much in the post-race interview. Vettel may well win and if I'm honest I don't have any ill-feeling toward any driver, including Alonso, but I would rather Webber win (after Button)
Associate
There is a difference between directly swapping cars and having both drivers to 'hold stations'. IMO there is nothing wrong with holding station, it's a perfectly legitimate decision to prevent both your drivers having to push their machinery too hard or even take each other out. OTOH ordering one driver to pull over is blatant result-fixing.
Asfaik McLaren have only ever instructed 'hold-stations'. When Button was instructed to give the place back it was because he had taken it when they were supposed not to be challenging each other.
Soldato
I'd agree although Button is very car-sensitive and Vettel is still young. Like I said I like them all really just prefer the underdog to win. But to say it would be an embarrassment to F1 if Webber won the title is just wrong.
Am I right in saying that if Vettel and Webber come 1st and 2nd respectively for the last 3 races, Vettel would still take the title?
i think thats what EJ or someone said on the forum, i cant be bothered to check the statistics.
the odds are the RB's arent capable of 1-2 for the last races anyway
DC says your wrong twice
Your right there is a difference and Red Bull tried it on as well.
So far as we know mclaren haven't issued direct orders for one to pull over but thats because they have had no need to. For the most part hamilton has been ahead.
Teams can control drivers now with fuel levels and engine settings. Putting a driver on slightly less fuel and then having him have to do a save fuel stint while winding up the engine on his team mate seems to be a current favourite.
Soldato
yes if RB pair finish with vettel wining last 3 with webber 2nd then vettel will win with 281 to webbers 274
but i cant see that happening
Button is a very good driver - he's not the best and certainly not the fastest but he's consistent and takes his chances. You don't win anything without taking your chances.
Webber isn't as consistent as Button, he's not got the same class, but he has taken his chances this year and it would be rude to grudge him his victory if he does manage to take the WDC. I don't think he will at this point, but if he does manage it he deserved it.
Hamilton and Alonso will be knocking chunks out of each other for the next few years and I dearly hope they both have competitive cars under them for the sake of the fans.
Vettel is fast for sure but I don't think he's as fast as Hamilton and certainly not as good at coming through the pack. He likes to lead from the front and if he gets there any driver will find it hard to take it from him. If he didn't have the best car I don't think we'd even be talking about him but he's young and has time to become one of the greats.
Button is unlikely to win another WDC, he's a bit like Damon Hill in that he has a very smooth style that pays off when he is one with the car - but with current testing rules he's never going to get that level of comfort in a car again and he's just not able to drag a car round the track like the other top drivers can.
Maybe button will luck out next season and the new Mclaren fits him like a glove, then we'll see some exciting racing between him and Hamilton, but I just don't see it happening.
Webber isn't as consistent as Button, he's not got the same class, but he has taken his chances this year and it would be rude to grudge him his victory if he does manage to take the WDC. I don't think he will at this point, but if he does manage it he deserved it.
Hamilton and Alonso will be knocking chunks out of each other for the next few years and I dearly hope they both have competitive cars under them for the sake of the fans.
Vettel is fast for sure but I don't think he's as fast as Hamilton and certainly not as good at coming through the pack. He likes to lead from the front and if he gets there any driver will find it hard to take it from him. If he didn't have the best car I don't think we'd even be talking about him but he's young and has time to become one of the greats.
Button is unlikely to win another WDC, he's a bit like Damon Hill in that he has a very smooth style that pays off when he is one with the car - but with current testing rules he's never going to get that level of comfort in a car again and he's just not able to drag a car round the track like the other top drivers can.
Maybe button will luck out next season and the new Mclaren fits him like a glove, then we'll see some exciting racing between him and Hamilton, but I just don't see it happening.
Associate
That's true, and I'm sure that McLaren would do it if they thought they needed too. But I do think they have a different approach than Ferrari/Red Bull, both of which clearly intended to have a No.1 driver from the first race of the season (but apparently didn't tell the No.2sDC says your wrong twice
Your right there is a difference and Red Bull tried it on as well.
So far as we know mclaren haven't issued direct orders for one to pull over but thats because they have had no need to. For the most part hamilton has been ahead.
Teams can control drivers now with fuel levels and engine settings. Putting a driver on slightly less fuel and then having him have to do a save fuel stint while winding up the engine on his team mate seems to be a current favourite.
), whereas I would guess that at McLaren there is more of an agreement that they start out equal and at some point whoever is ahead becomes No.1. Even though most people would predict it would be Lewis it is still a fairer proposition for Jenson and that he'd be more likely to be supportive of Lewis (ie not having to be told explicitly over the radio) when the time came because of that.
Associate
Webber should just take Vettel out in the last race then. Only fair really
