Japanese Grand Prix 2010, Suzuka - Race 16/19

I never knew that. The dodgy so and so's!

I'm guessing this is around 2003ish?

See I'm thinking it was around then because the later renault launch control was legal. Launch control was banned but they used a system that didn't use or measure wheel spin but knew grip levels of the circuit and so would limit engine power using mapping instead.

They were allowed to get away with that for a couple of years until the rules for engine mapping changed....

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/03/27/how-teams-are-dodging-the-traction-control-ban/

Remember when the teams used to slow down to a near stop and do practice starts to gather data....

Stéphane Samson: I was in Barcelona the other day and watched a few drivers making practice starts. I was amazed to see there was absolutely no sign of rear-wheel spinning. Is that something you were expecting?

Charlie Whiting: Absolutely. There’s a big difference between traction control and traction optimisation. This brings us back to pre-launch-control days, when there were rumours about some teams using illegal traction control. You can do things based on known grip levels. Teams can say: “We know exactly how much grip we’re going to have with these types of tyres on this surface, so let’s modulate the power through fuel and ignition in order to optimise grip. So however much the driver puts his foot on the throttle, we won’t give him any more than this much power.” They can do that. Traction control is measuring the grip and altering the power as a consequence. That’s very different. Now, as far as we’re concerned, as long as the throttle and clutch are under the direct control of the driver during the launch period – from the moment at which the car comes to a stop on the grid to the time it reaches 100km/h – everything is fine. After that, traction control can take over.
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87424

"With F1 welcoming a new tyre manufacturer next season, there have been concerns that some outfits may try and get an edge by getting the tyre development to suit their car or preferences.

During Bridgestone's time in F1, when there was a tyre war with Michelin, a lot of the early development was done by Ferrari and Michael Schumacher - which gave the team an edge in understanding the car/tyre relationship."


No wonder Schumacher is complaining about the tyres, they aren't designed to suit him specifically. :o
 
The real test for Kubica is when he has title contending vehicle and he is going wheel to wheel with the other title contenders, every single race...this will be the acid test.

Do you not remember the first half of 2008 when Kubica took the lead in the driver's championship? And then BMW stopped car development to "concentrate on next year's car" and threw his championship chances under the bus.

Kubica's shown, already, that he has what it takes; what he needs in a team which will put a car under him all season that he can take the fight to the frontrunners with.
 
Do you not remember the first half of 2008 when Kubica took the lead in the driver's championship? And then BMW stopped car development to "concentrate on next year's car" and threw his championship chances under the bus.

I do remember this. Also remember Kubica being usurped by Massa and Hamilton as he was losing ground in the championship race. I then remember hearing that BMW had made the decision to concentrate on the next season as they felt that they were fighting a losing battle.

Kubica was already losing ground to McLaren and Ferrari, before they stopped development of their current car.

Kubica's shown, already, that he has what it takes; what he needs in a team which will put a car under him all season that he can take the fight to the frontrunners with.

He has shown that he can compete at the front, until around the half way point in the championship. He has not yet shown that he can go all the way or at least enter the final 2 GPs, with a chance of winning the title and do well on those GPs.

For me, the jury is still out on Kubica. At least with Hamilton, he came to within a point of the title in 2007, so it would be fair to say that he was a future World Champ.

I'm not saying that Kubica won't ever win the title...just that, until he can compete right through the entire season (not 50% or 75% of the season) for the title, the jury's out on him.

Who knows, in 2011, if Renault give him the best car, he could well be 2011 World Champion. This is very much a possible scenario.
 
Mercedes for me for him. I really like him, wild and as good an overtaker as sato but with more raw pace. I'd hate him to go to ferrari and get Alonso'd.

Although the market for a japanese driver to do well would make him a huge huge star I think Mercedes would be a great stepping stone for him. Although it's unlikely right now theres a spare seat anywhere. Red Bull would be nice as well.
Oh, Ferrari was just me being ever-so-slightly ridiculous, as he's really not the type of driver that should be shackled up to playing second fiddle to Alonso, but in my ideal world I think it would just be fantastic to give him one of the best cars in the field and see what he could do.

With a more serious head on, I think a Renault drive (or Mercedes, as you suggest) would be a great step up for him. Although of course, any move he does do is unlikely to be until 2012 now.
 
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I think Force India would be a more realistic option first.
Slightly more stable, but not exactly much of an advancement is it? I'd class them and Williams as teams I don't really see improving next year, though I'd love to be proven wrong. My point was about him making a step up, which would be to a significantly better team imo.
 
lol @ Horner and his "we won't favour one driver" approach. In other words, we will not help Webber win the championship. If Vettel was up front in the championship then I doubt Christian would be saying the same thing.
 
A decent piece of Mclaren using Jenson for Suzuka. Backs up my thinking that they had the data to get Jenson in 10-15 laps earlier.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22687.html

When the decision was taken that Button would qualify on Bridgestone's hard compound tyre, the intention would not have been to use Jenson as a 'blocker.' The thinking would have been that with all the rain on Saturday, the track surface would still have been very 'green' at the start, and therefore the rest of the top 10, who all qualified on the soft 'option' tyre, would probably have to pit early.

There was a chance that even the Red Bull pace might not be enough to clear some of those who started further back on the prime tyre and would run a much longer first stint. Jenson, therefore, could lead the race and be able to run uninterrupted in clean air, which could have opened up interesting possibilities.

Things looked good when Button was able to qualify within two hundredths of Alonso despite using the harder tyre for a three lap qualifying run. And things looked even better when Robert Kubica retired from the race early on.

But, track temperature had risen significantly which allowed the surface to rubber in more quickly, which meant that the front-runners on their option tyres were not in as much trouble. Instead of having to make their pit stops after 10-12 laps, as some had predicted, Hamilton, who was the first of the leading group to pit, went 22 laps into the 53 lap race.

It meant two things. First, the Red Bulls were able to pull out a big enough lead to get their pit stops done without losing significant track position. And, Button did not run in clean air until later than expected. In fact, he was holding up Hamilton, whose softer tyres were not degrading.

At this stage, Button's strategy clearly wasn't going to work. The best thing for Jenson would have been for the team to pit him, possibly even a lap before Lewis, and put him on the option tyres. With the track rubbered in, the option tyre would have been capable of a 30 lap stint. But instead, they left Jenson out for another 16 laps, as far as lap 38.

It was easy enough to make a direct comparison of tyre performance. From Hamilton's stop on lap 22 for the next 15 laps, Button was around a second per lap slower than his team mate. So, if McLaren wasn't then planning to use Jenson to back everyone into Hamilton, what were they doing?


Unfortunately in terms of race excitement we didn't get to see the scenario play out.

On lap 38 Hamilton lost the use of third gear to a broken dog ring and his lap time dropped off by 2s. It was on that very same lap that McLaren called Button in. How much longer they would have left him out if Lewis hadn't had his problem, we will never know.

By that stage the team knew that Button was going to finish fifth anyway (without Hamilton having his problem) and the likely outcome was that within a few laps Button, Vettel, Webber, Alonso and Hamilton would have been running in a five-car train. Things could have been very interesting and uncomfortable for the Red Bulls and Fernando in the final laps, with Button making his tyre stop right at the end. The last man you'd want on your tail in such circumstances, is Lewis Hamilton. And it would not have been team orders, but team strategy!

Because the situation never arose, McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh was able to deny that the team's intention was to use Button as a 'blocker' in those final laps. "Others might have, but it's not the way we go motor racing," he said.

It may not have been the intention when they went to the grid but it sure looks as if it developed that way. If it wasn't the case, Button's strategy is pretty tough to explain.
 
I'd also rather Webber to win. Can't stand Vettel's smugness.

Me too, but Finishing second to Vettel in every race isnt going to work

Vetterl either needs a DNF when webber can score some high points, or he's going to have to beat him on one of the last choices

If it cant be Hamilton Or Button to Win, Webber is my 3rd choice, a genuinely likeable guy.
 
... Button, Vettel, Webber, Alonso and Hamilton would have been running in a five-car train. Things could have been very interesting and uncomfortable for the Red Bulls and Fernando in the final laps, with Button making his tyre stop right at the end. The last man you'd want on your tail in such circumstances, is Lewis Hamilton.

So true.
I remember in the early part of the season, Kubica got a top 3 finish. He was asked if he was worried, during the race about the cars directly behind him (who seemed to be faster, where Kubica seemed to be holding them up in a train). Kubica replied that he wasnt worried about any of those cars, but he was very worried about Hamilton who was somewhere near the back of the field.

I think that is one of the biggest compliments you can pay your rival.

IMO, McLaren have now begun to favour 1 driver over the other. Even though Button is only a few points behind Hamilton. Button is a smart guy...he must know this. This is probably because they don't feel that Button has the firepower to deal with Alonso or Vettel.

While Ferrari and RBR were more blatant in their "preferential treatment to their No.1 driver", McLaren are much more discreet.
 
In other words, we will not help Webber win the championship. If Vettel was up front in the championship then I doubt Christian would be saying the same thing.

Of course.

Vettel is their No.1 driver...No.1 driver almost always gets preference. This is completely the right thing to do from the perspective of a team. For me, Vettel is RBR's best chance of winning the title.

Unless they want to gift Alonso the title, RBR/McLaren, must get behind their No.1 drivers and do everything they can to ensure they get the maximum points possible.

Its amazing to think that a single DNF will effectively put any of the top 4 drivers out of the championship. That's all it takes. 1 DNF.

Its also amazing to think that Hamilton has had 2 DNF's and a broken car (in a row), yet he is still in the title hunt. Hamilton has had a great season.
 
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