Poll: Japanese Grand Prix 2017, Suzuka - Race 16/20

Rate the 2017 Japanese Grand Prix out of ten

  • Total voters
    64
  • Poll closed .
drunkenmaster said:
For someone who pretends to know a lot about F1... you know nothing about F1.

Add in 2009 and 2008

2008 rubbish, but also putting 200-300mil worth of team talent into developing the 2009 car throughout the whole season. 2009 won the title but also had a team budget of about 80mil, lost most of the staff and didn't do any work on a 2009 car.


2010 they were bought by Mercedes... who under Brawn announced a plan to BUILD THE TEAM SLOWLY over time, with their intention from the start always to be at around full strength for towards the end of 2012, have a good team for 2013 and be completely ready for 2014 and the new regulations.

2010 4th ~120mil budget
2011 4th ~ 150mil budget
2012 5th ~ 200mil budget
2013 2nd ~250mil budget.

You're ruining your own argument. A, Mercedes were competitive as soon as the team budget approached those of the teams ahead of them and despite only being at Ferrari/Mclaren/RBR budget during 2013, were 2nd in the championship.

That they were as competitive as they were from 2010 to 2012 with the lacking budget is a testament to what Brawn could achieve and that they immediately moved up to 2nd place the second their budget was on par with the big 3, suggests how competitive they were.... before the v6's.
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brawn GP won 2009 because of the rear diffuser that caught most teams off guard

2013 if massa didn't have those two dnf's they would have been third and we won't know about 2014 with V8 as they switched to **** engines
 
ThestigGT999 said:
brawn GP won 2009 because of the rear diffuser that caught most teams off guard

2013 if massa didn't have those two dnf's they would have been third and we won't know about 2014 with V8 as they switched to **** engines
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Brawn in 09 had a great car that had a HUGE budget spent on it which is part of the reason they had a working double diffuser, three teams started the season with a double diffuser, one made it work and took a huge lead before anyone else got theirs working. That came from money. Read up on it, Honda pretty much killed the 08 car as soon as it got going because it was ****. They spent massive resources on the 2009 car, more than most other teams in most seasons that has ever happened in F1... then they jumped ship because frankly, they're stupid.

Brawn 09 working double diffuser was because Honda spent ungodly amounts of money and time on that car which only a big budget can achieve.

AS for 2013.. lol, first up Monaco, Massa started at the back of the grid, he crashed out in 15 position, he had no chance of championship points, the safety car he caused made Mercedes have to double stack which lost them the 1-2 and gave them the 1-4 finish, so Massa lost no points for Ferrari but it actually lost 6 points for Mercedes.

Germany, Massa was 6th, with 8 points when he went out with either driver error or it was caused by a gearbox problem depending on where I read. So I'm not sure where he lost points if it was reliability.

Conversely Hamilton got collected in the Pirelli tyre failures in Silverstone which lost Mercedes 6 points(they had a 1-2 with Ham first and got a 1-4 with Rosberg first). In Japan where Hamilton retired going in 2nd or 3rd to the first corner when Vettel clipped his tire and gave him a puncture, at a track he has fantastic pace around, he was ahead of Massa and would have picked up a large number of points there.

It depends what you mean by what points Massa lost, are you saying points lost as a result of being hit by other cars, outside of the teams influence or are you talking about all points lost. In any case, Mercedes lost more points than Ferrari did through DNFs and collisions that weren't their fault from what I can see.

Also again, that was the FIRST year of them having a comparable budget and it was a brand new car which was the basis(in philosophy/concept) for the 2014 car which was an evolution of the main parts, suspension, aero concept, size, etc. Everyone else was on the 4-5th year of evolution of the current design and yet they jumped right in to second place, deservedly, with an unrefined car. For 2014 it was more refined and blew everyone else away, powerful engine advantage sure, but that was only part of the reason they were ahead.
 
Not a lot going on in that race really. Was pretty boring. Really not sure what is going on with Bottas. Seems like his ability has dropped off a cliff. Even if you argue he just isnt that good a driver - he should still podium because he has the car under him.

Something wrong somewhere.
 
Jono8 said:
The first year in ages that it has been more than just a one horse race and you think it is poor? Admittedly, Ferrari imploding in the last three races has now made the result pretty much a forgone conclusion, but before that I thought this season was excellent.
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Yes because there is very little action on track. It's been one boring race after another. If the championship contenders were fighting each other on track it would be different but there is rarely a fight followed by a overtake for the win. So there is (was) more than one driver/team in the running for the championships, big deal because there is no close competition on track.
 
pastymuncher said:
Yes because there is very little action on track. It's been one boring race after another. If the championship contenders were fighting each other on track it would be different but there is rarely a fight followed by a overtake for the win. So there is (was) more than one driver/team in the running for the championships, big deal because there is no close competition on track.
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F1 has hardly ever been like that.
 
The problem is the same as it's always been. The faster cars tend to qualify in front. The faster cars then hare off into the lead. All the messing about with rules can't really fix that because the front runners (by definition) will be in front. The days when drivers banged into each other and died a lot, and you could build a racing car in your shed are long gone. There's masses of technology, rules about the way you have to drive to prevent accidents (eg no blocking), lots of science to say you don't fight a faster car coming up behind you, or get too close to the car in front (better to do your pit stop), because it's faster not to, etc. Those rosy-spectacled ideas about how exciting it used to be (even if they were true) have been bred out of the sport simply by the way it's advanced over the years.
 
I hope they bring back Nico Rosberg for more races (Sky Sports F1 that is) - It's always fascinating to see what the drivers are like when they are free from the corporate 'wooden' insights they normally provide.
 
The driver briefing was better than the race. Seatbeltgate - so funny when Hamilton turns to Grosjean 'Why do you need clarification on it' and thinking, but you aren't going to win anytime soon anyway. Brilliant. Also, shut up Grosjean.

The snipe at Vettel is then even better.
 
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In response to if Hamilton thinks they need them from Charlie

"well we're driving so slow, but maybe Sebastian should keep his on".... I laughed, I think half that room laughed and half that room tried not to laugh at Seb.
 
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