Joe Lycett - Qatar/Beckham debate

a1ex2001 said:
I have no idea what you mean?

The Qatar world cup should never have been awarded as the nation has no football heritage to speak of and secured victory by handing huge amounts of cash to corrupt FIFA officials. Once this was known the contest should have been re-run and regardless the minute the airconditioned stadiums lie was exposed the tournament should have been moved elsewhere. Thes before you even consider the human rights record of the country and it's mistreatment of minorities, both of which would have played a significant part in the tournament not being awarded were it not for said huge sums of money under the table.

The Russian world cup was reasonably fairly awarded to a country with a strong football heritage, but should have been removed the day they invaded a neighbouring country as sports washing you countries poor behaviour is not acceptable. The world under reacted to the invasion of Crimea and is now reaping the benefits, the world cup is one tiny part of it.

I would love to know why you think it is such a good idea for Qatar to host the world cup....
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I thought the schedule was moved to winter to give the fans a break while moving around outside? Also the corruption thing, if Fifa is corrupt then the next competition will also be corrupt no?


But that aside.. the football has millions of fans in the middle east, the tournament HAS to go there weather you like it or not, no other country in the region was coming forward and they did.

If it HAS to be in summer then the world cup will NEVER go to certain locations if its so weather dependent.

They have a good location, easy for people to travel there from the middle east/asia/europe, can guarantee security of all the fans in an otherwise unstable region, they have the money to build out the infrastructure required, they have a lax visa policy meaning anyone can turn up, they are used to hosting people from all over the world so this will come naturally to them. There lots of reasons for them having it if you have actually try to understand their (and fifas) perspective.

Oh I also don't buy the football heritage argument. They have a football team, that's enough.

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just look at their global connectivity, every continent has a direct flight.
 
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jamoor said:
I thought the schedule was moved to winter to give the fans a break while moving around outside? Also the corruption thing, if Fifa is corrupt then the next competition will also be corrupt no?


But that aside.. the football has millions of fans in the middle east, the tournament HAS to go there weather you like it or not, no other country in the region was coming forward and they did.

If it HAS to be in summer then the world cup will NEVER go to certain locations if its so weather dependent.

They have a good location, easy for people to travel there from the middle east/asia/europe, can guarantee security of all the fans in an otherwise unstable region, they have the money to build out the infrastructure required, they have a lax visa policy meaning anyone can turn up, they are used to hosting people from all over the world so this will come naturally to them. There lots of reasons for them having it if you have actually try to understand their (and fifas) perspective.

Oh I also don't buy the football heritage argument. They have a football team, that's enough.
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Corruption at Fifa is an ongoing but much diminished issue, but sadly it's not gone as demonstrated by FIFA's utterly spineless approach to the Qatari government during the tournament the last minute capitulation on Alcohol in stadiums when they previously forced Brazil to change the law and the hideous threats over the one love armband, any country that is so terrified of the damage a rainbow covered bit of cloth could cause is worryingly insecure.

Maybe the world cup did one day need to go to the middle east like it had to go to Africa but it shouldn't be bought and sold, if Qatar had won the right to hold the tournament in anything even close to a legitimate process and had been honest upfront about hosting the tournament in winter, not allowing Alcohol in Stadiums, killing a few hundred migrant workers building the stadiums and banning all rainbows then I would have no problem with them hosting it but we all know that had they made those things clear at the outset then they wouldn't have won the tournament partly because FIFA's own rules demand that the sponsors beer is available at the stadiums.

The ongoing criticism of Qatar's human rights record and treatment of minorities is to be expected, they have put their country firmly in the worlds lens and should expect it to be examined as would any country in the same position anywhere in the world. Brazil took plenty of negative press for the money wasted on the world cup against a background of poverty in the country.

and of course football heritage is important, it massively helps the event if the tournament hosts are reasonably successful and locals make the crowd an atmosphere avaoiding the sad sight of half empty stadiums for the hosts matches. Footballing countries also should benefit more from the legacy of building a number of large stadiums and supporting infrastructure as they can at least use them going forward, Qatar has no need of most of the stadiums domestically.
 
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jamoor said:
I thought the schedule was moved to winter to give the fans a break while moving around outside? Also the corruption thing, if Fifa is corrupt then the next competition will also be corrupt no?
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Not necessarily, no. It doesn't follow that because corruption was sufficient to swing the venue selection in favour of Russia in 2018 and Qatar in 2022 instead of the UK then the USA respectively that corruption will be sufficient to swing the vote every time.
 
Maybe we should start threatening FIFA officials (little time in a black site should do it) to ensure money isn't enough? I mean if it's acceptable why shouldn't we do it?
 
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www.dailymail.co.uk

Qatar seizes 'un-Islamic' children's toys with rainbow patterns

Qatar will host next year's football World Cup, and despite repeated assertions by authorities that anyone will be welcome, homosexuality remains illegal in the Muslim emirate.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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Authorities in Qatar have seized a line of what they called 'un-Islamic' children's toys that feature rainbow patterns similar to LGBT flags.

The small oil-rich peninsular will host next year's football World Cup, and despite repeated assertions by authorities that anyone will be welcome to visit for the tournament, homosexuality remains illegal in the conservative Muslim emirate.

The line of rainbow coloured children's toys were confiscated from stores, with officials saying they were contrary to 'Islamic values'.
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a1ex2001 said:
Corruption at Fifa is an ongoing but much diminished issue, but sadly it's not gone as demonstrated by FIFA's utterly spineless approach to the Qatari government during the tournament the last minute capitulation on Alcohol in stadiums when they previously forced Brazil to change the law and the hideous threats over the one love armband, any country that is so terrified of the damage a rainbow covered bit of cloth could cause is worryingly insecure.

Maybe the world cup did one day need to go to the middle east like it had to go to Africa but it shouldn't be bought and sold, if Qatar had won the right to hold the tournament in anything even close to a legitimate process and had been honest upfront about hosting the tournament in winter, not allowing Alcohol in Stadiums, killing a few hundred migrant workers building the stadiums and banning all rainbows then I would have no problem with them hosting it but we all know that had they made those things clear at the outset then they wouldn't have won the tournament partly because FIFA's own rules demand that the sponsors beer is available at the stadiums.

The ongoing criticism of Qatar's human rights record and treatment of minorities is to be expected, they have put their country firmly in the worlds lens and should expect it to be examined as would any country in the same position anywhere in the world. Brazil took plenty of negative press for the money wasted on the world cup against a background of poverty in the country.

and of course football heritage is important, it massively helps the event if the tournament hosts are reasonably successful and locals make the crowd an atmosphere avaoiding the sad sight of half empty stadiums for the hosts matches. Footballing countries also should benefit more from the legacy of building a number of large stadiums and supporting infrastructure as they can at least use them going forward, Qatar has no need of most of the stadiums domestically.
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Well, again if beer has to be available in stadiums & it has to be in summer than it may never go to the middle east, a predominantly muslim region. It's a WORLD cup not a western cup. People need to accept the fact that if its to be a WORLD cup then each country may have their own ways of doing things and there will need to be some adjustments made to accomodate things.

It's really the uncultured that think everywhere is like London.

Who is to blame for these last minute switcheroos I have no idea. fifa may not have come hard on the qatari government because they were part of it maybe?
 
It's amazing how a strip of bright colours can strike so much fear into people, what do they actually thing will happen if they allow a raibow into the country? are they concerned that it is like the pied piper and everyone who witnesses it will suddenly feel compelled to become LGBQT+?
 
a1ex2001 said:
It's amazing how a strip of bright colours can strike so much fear into people, what do they actually thing will happen if they allow a raibow into the country? are they concerned that it is like the pied piper and everyone who witnesses it will suddenly feel compelled to become LGBQT+?
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Well it's their country, their rules. We won't understand because we aren't part of their culture. Much like why I can never understand why the Japanese love at hate noise at the same time.
 
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jamoor said:
Well, again if beer has to be available in stadiums & it has to be in summer than it may never go to the middle east, a predominantly muslim region. It's a WORLD cup not a western cup. People need to accept the fact that if its to be a WORLD cup then each country may have their own ways of doing things and there will need to be some adjustments made to accomodate things.
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Turkey is in the Middle East, allows beer and would be suitable for football in the Summer. There isn't some weird FIFA rule that says every country has to host at least once. Qatar got the world cup because they paid a load of money to various people to allow it to happen, despite being one of the most unsuitable host countries imaginable.
 
jamoor said:
Well, again if beer has to be available in stadiums & it has to be in summer than it may never go to the middle east, a predominantly muslim region. It's a WORLD cup not a western cup. People need to accept the fact that if its to be a WORLD cup then each country may have their own ways of doing things and there will need to be some adjustments made to accomodate things.

It's really the uncultured that think everywhere is like London.

Who is to blame for these last minute switcheroos I have no idea. fifa may not have come hard on the qatari government because they were part of it maybe?
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I have no problem with beer not being allowed in the stadiums, if that was made clear upfront and it hadn't been a requirement for hosting the tournament, Brazil literally had to change the law to allow it as it is usually banned. similarly there is no real reason that it couldn't be allowed in Qatar as you can drink in the posh bits of the stadiums (Hospitality) in the fan parks and in a host of other places it is not like the consumption of booze in the country is prohibited.

I don't think everywhere is like London (a place I don't even really like) and have visited countries all over the world, including several Muslim dominated ones.

The last minute changes shouldn't have been allowed, FIFA have bottled it no doubt for a few envelopes stuffed with cash. Thretening to book players for wearing a bit of rainbow cloth they have previously work without issue is bizarre and dropping there own booze requirements just for the normal fans not the big bucks guys in the posh seats was ridiculous. All FIFA had to do was say no like they did to Brazil.
 
jamoor said:
Well it's their country, their rules. We won't understand because we aren't part of their culture. Much like why I can never understand why the Japanese love at hate noise at the same time.
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LOL, there culture doesn't allow rainbow coloured kids toys and hats, you surely jest? and even if that is true then they should have made clear during the bid that this wouldn't be an inclusive world cup in which case they wouldn't have won it even with the rank corruption.
 
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FishFluff said:
Turkey is in the Middle East, allows beer and would be suitable for football in the Summer. There isn't some weird FIFA rule that says every country has to host at least once. Qatar got the world cup because they paid a load of money to various people to allow it to happen, despite being one of the most unsuitable host countries imaginable.
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Turkey is indeed in the Middle East, it would also be a great place(unfortunately their security situation isn't 100% like events from a few weeks ago demonstrated), did they ever actually come forward to host?.

I just listed a whole load of reasons why Qatar is a suitable.

Fifa doesn't say every country has to host it once, but its in the spirit of the tournament to make it accessible to as many people as possible.
 
jamoor said:
Fifa doesn't say every country has to host it once, but its in the spirit of the tournament to make it accessible to as many people as possible.
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Quoted just for the sheer hilarity of that statement coming from someone who has just said it was ok to exclude circa 5-10% of the worlds population because their country their rules, you really couldn't make this nonsense up!
 
a1ex2001 said:
LOL, there culture doesn't allow rainbow coloured kids toys and hats, you surely jest? and even if that is true then they should have made clear during the bid that this wouldn't be an inclusive world cup in which case they wouldn't have won it even with the rank corruption.
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What's not inclusive about it?

If their country doesn't want people waving flags that's fine I can leave the flag at home and attend. I am not being excluded, that flag isn't essential for my tournament attendance.

Now if I was gay/black/jew/white/lesbian and told not to come because of that, then we have a non inclusive tournament.
Qatar has people from all over the world living there from all different backgrounds, religions, colours so I think they would know a thing or two how to deal with anyone that turns up.
 
a1ex2001 said:
seen as it is obviously silly season, anyone who likes to wear rainbows so actually pretty much every kid I know
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See what I mean?

Uncultured people that think everywhere is like London.

Even when the qatari government has put out statement after statement. They are unable to grasp basic concepts.
 
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