Joe Lycett - Qatar/Beckham debate

jamoor said:
1) In the UK you can be sacked for any reason within two years. In Germany its six months.
2)In germany almost everyone has some sort of works council representing them. I only worked there for about a year employed by a German company and every month they would meet with the employer to discuss issues and my working conditions were regularly updated in this time.
I remember looking at the working conditions in Amazon UK vs Amazon DE over the xmas period last year. The UK ones were positively medieval, 50+ hours a week, compiulsory overtime. In Germany 37.5 hours a week was set.
3)No age related minimum wages. Everyone gets the same
4)In some industries wages are set by the works councils under collective agreements, for example fast food workers are covered by these and you don't get mcdonalds managers making 10p more than restaurant staff.
5) Jobseekers allowance is related to your salary

6) This is a bit controversal but the state pension makes the UK one look like a joke but you pay a lot for it so I am not sure if this is much of a positive.

7) the whole gig economy zero hours contract thing doesn’t exist either. Everyone knows exactly how much money they wil get every week.

8) everyone gets Sunday off except on a few circumstances(restaurants, cinemas etc) you can’t drive a truck, or deliver parcels.
Oh you can’t even mow your lawn unless you’re doing it silently

9) oh and sick pay, I was there during Covid and the whole thing was a joke in the U.K. when people were being asked to go off sick for a few quid per day. In germany it’s the whole pay.

I am sure there is more but these are the ones I thought of off the top of my head that I remember.
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Im going to be hoest here. Im not particually proud of our workers rights especialy for low paid workers.

The sacking period is now 1 year thanks to Cameron and Clegg. I think if Clegg hadnt been there it would be lower.

You have to pay if you want to take a company to court for unfair dismissal. Brought in by the Tories.

There are many more but compared to most non EU countries we have it better than them. There is massive room for improvement.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Im going to be hoest here. Im not particually proud of our workers rights especialy for low paid workers.

The sacking period is now 1 year thanks to Cameron and Clegg. I think if Clegg hadnt been there it would be lower.

You have to pay if you want to take a company to court for unfair dismissal. Brought in by the Tories.

There are many more but compared to most non EU countries we have it better than them. There is massive room for improvement.
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Compared to many EU countries we have it better than them too.
 
Hagar said:
Compared to many EU countries we have it better than them too.
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have what better? If you look at countries of a similar development such as the Nordic’s and Western Europe we really aren’t much better if at all due to those countries having strong socialist values whereas we tend to lean a bit towards capitalist values.

Thats why these people can continue to slog along with the EU.

We also have crazy tuition fees, sky high childcare costs.

When we get referred to as the Americans of Europe they aren’t far off.
 
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Combat squirrel said:
Wow, there is even a debate about it ? So you are telling me, there are people here on this forum who are quite happy innocent people have died for a simple football tournament ? Or at least don't care people have died? :confused:

Crazy, sadly, part of me isn't surprised.

The obvious only moral answer is, it's wrong & the world should have boycott it, Qatar needs to learn.
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It's just like you won't see many people boycott fast fashion or cheap toys and electronics. People pretend they care but the reality is they soon get beyond their moral dilemma.
.
Destinations like Qatar, Dubai and Abu Dhabi etc have huge building projects where countless people die due to bad practice but people continue to go there on holiday and show off their Instagram pics at every opportunity.

People aren't happy about it but people like to live in their own bubble and can't really be arsed in contributing to protest.
 
Tony Edwards said:
Still massive room for improvement either way.

You obviously missed the bit about the EU having specific workers rights enshrined into all member states.
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We too, we have not repealed any that we held within the EU. Regarding scale, maternal leave can vary between states and Britain's allowance is more generous than most. Same with others.
The rights are enshrined but the detail is left to member states to determine.

You know all states are sovereign?

We are going off topic though.
 
Hagar said:
We too, we have not repealed any that we held within the EU. Regarding scale, maternal leave can vary between states and Britain's allowance is more generous than most. Same with others.
The rights are enshrined but the detail is left to member states to determine.

You know all states are sovereign?

We are going off topic though.
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You certainly are.
 
Hedge said:
It's just like you won't see many people boycott fast fashion or cheap toys and electronics. People pretend they care but the reality is they soon get beyond their moral dilemma.
.
Destinations like Qatar, Dubai and Abu Dhabi etc have huge building projects where countless people die due to bad practice but people continue to go there on holiday and show off their Instagram pics at every opportunity.

People aren't happy about it but people like to live in their own bubble and can't really be arsed in contributing to protest.
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Yep, as did the england football team when presented with the possibility of a yellow card.

The reality is nobidy is perfect and if you begin using political/moral compasses to guide everything in life you will end up with a very short list of things.
 
Well, I really don't know what to make of this. The lack of alcohol makes sense, but the choice of fan the author selected to focus on is... Interesting.

...as he gazed at a vast panorama of England supporters around him in Doha – and saw so many faces looking like his own...
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Maybe paid actors in the stands is the future after all. :p

www.theguardian.com

‘Fan culture is changing’: England cheered by diverse crowds in Qatar

Factors including scarcity of alcohol and travel costs have changed the face of England’s support, but will it last?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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Dirk Diggler said:
Well, I really don't know what to make of this. The lack of alcohol makes sense, but the choice of fan the author selected to focus on is... Interesting.



Maybe paid actors in the stands is the future after all. :p

www.theguardian.com

‘Fan culture is changing’: England cheered by diverse crowds in Qatar

Factors including scarcity of alcohol and travel costs have changed the face of England’s support, but will it last?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Drunken larger louts must keep people scared and away, we’ve seen on YouTube what happens.

Qatar can guarantee security and a family friendly atmosphere for all fans. They’ve brought in Turkish police, Pakistani army etc to ensure this.


Another thing I watched on YouTube from fans is they loved that it’s all in one place, no need to cross cross a country.
 
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Dirk Diggler said:
Well, I really don't know what to make of this. The lack of alcohol makes sense, but the choice of fan the author selected to focus on is... Interesting.



Maybe paid actors in the stands is the future after all. :p

www.theguardian.com

‘Fan culture is changing’: England cheered by diverse crowds in Qatar

Factors including scarcity of alcohol and travel costs have changed the face of England’s support, but will it last?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

Perhaps having an arab Muslim country hosting the games in the middle of the European winter footballing season has been a minor success story in itself. Not ignoring the horrendous health and safety record in building the stadia though.

Qatar in possible bid for 2036 olympics, I am led to believe.
 
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Hagar said:
Perhaps having an arab Muslim country hosting the games in the middle of the European winter footballing season has been a minor success story in itself. Not ignoring the horrendous health and safety record in building the stadia though.

Qatar in possible bid for 2036 olympics, I am led to believe.
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I thought you were joking about the olympics, but I guess it makes sense. They seemed to have pulled it off well so far.

I can't see the next world cup being convinient for fans, having to crisscross an entire continent!
Apparently one youtube may hold a world record for attending every single match which is only possible in Qatar so far.
 
jamoor said:
Oh Jeez in addition to my point above, you can legally employ someone in the U.K. for £4.83 an hour, now that’s very questionable.
Even a 20 year old at £6.83. I bet if they work in Domino’s they will be stood next to a 25 year old making £10 odd for the same job.
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I stay away from young people as the work ethic is very poor.

20% of workers do 80% of the work, there are plenty of people who i have seen who i would not pay £6.83 per hour, the result is to sack them.

Some are just entirely useless, however the majority are just extremely lazy, its as if they are forced to work because their parents are shouting at them, or the job center is forcing them.

The work ethic of the above 50's is noticeably better than the rest.
 
platinum87 said:
I stay away from young people as the work ethic is very poor.

20% of workers do 80% of the work, there are plenty of people who i have seen who i would not pay £6.83 per hour, the result is to sack them.

Some are just entirely useless, however the majority are just extremely lazy, its as if they are forced to work because their parents are shouting at them, or the job center is forcing them.

The work ethic of the above 50's is noticeably better than the rest.
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At £4.83 I’m not surprised they have poor work ethic.

Even £6.83 For someone who is 20?


I’m surprised such a thing isn’t deemed a scandal.
I just took a quick look at france and they have 17 and 16 year old hourly wage but no way are they so low
 
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jamoor said:
At £4.83 I’m not surprised they have poor work ethic.

Even £6.83 For someone who is 20?


I’m surprised such a thing isn’t deemed a scandal.
I just took a quick look at france and they have 17 and 16 year old hourly wage but no way are they so low
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Work ethic and salary are not related in the slightest.

If you will not do X job for £X per hour, you will not do that job, or you will resign quickly after realizing the job is different to what you thought.

You say even £6.83, what does that even mean, Some 20 year olds are not worth £1 per hour, some are negative, and some are worth £20 per hour.

You imply everyone is worth the same or something?

If you are managing people or running your own business you will see it very clearly.
 
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