John Terry Racism Trial

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mmj_uk said:
There's a big difference between being a racist and knowing what buttons to push though.
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This in my opinion is what accounts for many racism cases in the world. Most of the people who use the albeit foul language are using it to push a button, not to be racist per se. Somebody saying "I wish all those black ***** would get out of our country because they're all benefit scroungers" is a lot more racist than somebody calling a black guy they got in a fight with a "******* *N-word*" in the heat of the moment.
 
Curio said:
I don't think it's a case of it going over anybody's head. It's more a case of it just seeming absurd that you can't use the word "black" when it's both factually correct and nothing to be insulted about on its own. The "N-bomb" is a different matter because you're clearly alluding to the not-so-nice past. With black people holding some of the highest offices in the world, how can the word "black" be derogatory in anyway? :confused: I guess you're saying that it's not just factual it's "loaded" - but that's your problem. If people didn't get their panties in a bunch about the word then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
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It's nothing to do with the actual word 'Black' as I tried to make clear in my previous post. It's the fact that he is deliberately bringing the colour of his skin into an argument. I can see how you might try and see it from the factual point of view, that he is black, so therefore its a statement, but it doesn't work like that.

It's the same as somebody using a term like "**** ****" or "Turkish ****" its a racially loaded offensive statement.

If somebody called me a "White ****" I'd certainly be offended by it and would be taking it as a racist attack.
 
Nexus said:
It's nothing to do with the actual word 'Black' as I tried to make clear in my previous post. It's the fact that he is deliberately bringing the colour of his skin into an argument. I can see how you might try and see it from the factual point of view, that he is black, so therefore its a statement, but it doesn't work like that.

It's the same as somebody using a term like "**** ****" or "Turkish ****" its a racially loaded offensive statement.

If somebody called me a "White ****" I'd certainly be offended by it and would be taking it as a racist attack.
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This is what I've been saying. I don't understand why many people in this thread are being deliberately thick and not seeing how prefixing the C word with black is more offensive than just saying the C word. If someone in a wheelchair was called a spastic C, would people here think that's ok too?
 
lol

The moment of misunderstanding in the trial arose when Terry was asked to repeat the evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career, so the court could hear him.
“Can you say, please, four times?” asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson.
“Please, please, please, please,” Terry responded.
Huge laughter broke out around the courtroom. Terry had earlier been told to speak up and more clearly. Which he did but to inappropriately comic affect.
 
cm1179 said:
lol

The moment of misunderstanding in the trial arose when Terry was asked to repeat the evidence that he had been sent off four times in his career, so the court could hear him.
“Can you say, please, four times?” asked his QC, George Carter-Stephenson.
“Please, please, please, please,” Terry responded.
Huge laughter broke out around the courtroom. Terry had earlier been told to speak up and more clearly. Which he did but to inappropriately comic affect.
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The guy hardly helped him. What's wrong with "Can you please say four times" or "Please can you say four times" or even just "Please say how many times you've been sent off in your career".
 
Moothead2 said:
The guy hardly helped him. What's wrong with "Can you please say four times" or "Please can you say four times" or even just "Please say how many times you've been sent off in your career".
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yeah, tbh, it's kind of how a person who's first language wasn't english would ask in fairness but in the context of it, terry should've known what he was asking. i'm assuming if there was a pause between the 'can you say' and 'four times' when the please was dropped in and it was said in a polite tone, most people would've cottoned on to what he was asking.
 
I agree but to be fair to him, it's probably a bit different when you're the defending in a court case being asked that than if it was during a casual conversation with your mates.
 
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Nexus said:
The only reason the cost may seem trivial is because £2500 is spare change to the likes of John Terry. The much more important point though is that he is somebody who is looked up to by thousands of people in this country, so regardless of the cost an example has to be made that such language is unacceptable, especially from somebody who is supposed to be a role model.

Inregards to your second point, I think its gone over your head.
Terry has deliberately used the colour of skin as a derogative and reason to abuse him. Of course the term Black is the accepted term to describe somebody of that skin colour, however by using it as part of an offensive statement he is being deliberately racist. If he just thought he was a C word, then he would have just called him that. By calling him a Black C word, he is being racist.

Do you see?
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I agree that the language used is unacceptable. However by prosecuting JT the CPS have effectively shown that using abusive language is acceptable. There has been no issue taken with the f word and the c word used. If you take the word black out of his statement then it is still a breach of S5 of the Public Order Act.

The whole case is making the point that it is OK to call people ******* **** as long as you don't add the word black. This is why I remain doubtful of the public interest criterion being fulfilled by the CPS.

Nothing on this matter has gone over my head. What is worth bearing in mind is that being called a black something is only a negative if the recipient believes in their own mind that the word is in someway negative.
 
cm1179 said:
oh bore off.
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Whats the problem?

You make a public pronouncement but don't like the idea you might be asked to back it up?

If you can't back it up why repeat it?

You're quite happy to put out on the forum that allegations that John Terry paid Veronica Perroncel money to abort his child are true, but when asked to say why you think it's true you can't deliver anything.
 
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