John Terry Racism Trial

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JohnnyG said:
He didn't though, you'd be **** as a prosecutor.
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No he didn't but most people with half a brain can see that either word, black or N conveys the same derogatory implication.
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
The latter is far more sinister because racism is a worldwide thing with an extremely long history.
Also, calling someone a fat &^*£ doesn't carry the same seriousness either since any fat person has the option to lose weight.
 
JohnnyG said:
Do you not find it at all interesting that A.Cole (a black teammate) chose to make a statement?
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No as I expected him to. Given that nearly all of the squad signed a statement in support of Terry, I'd have expected Mikel, Malouda and Drogba too as well.

There may have been other first team players that didn't sign the statement, I'm not sure. Those were the only 3 I noticed missing though.
 
Merlin5 said:
No he didn't but most people with half a brain can see that either word, black or N conveys the same derogatory implication.
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
The latter is far more sinister because racism is a worldwide thing with an extremely long history.
Also, calling someone a fat &^*£ doesn't carry the same seriousness either since any fat person has the option to lose weight.
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You have serious problems if you think that calling someone a N **** is less offensive than calling someone a Ginger ****.
Or Fat **** for that matter.
When you finally acquire half a brain you might realise that insults are just as hurtful for all who suffer them.
 
Merlin5 said:
No he didn't but most people with half a brain can see that either word, black or N conveys the same derogatory implication.
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
The latter is far more sinister because racism is a worldwide thing with an extremely long history.
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Yeah, they are the same, but like with many other words like **** and Vagina, *** and Homosexual and **** and Penis one word has a lot more effect and meaning than the other in terms on offence caused.

Merlin5 said:
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
The latter is far more sinister because racism is a worldwide thing with an extremely long history.
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Why should they be any different? They're both traits you are born with and can't do anything to get away from (Apart from dying your hair which is a temporary and usually pointless solution). Just because one thing is 'Worldwide' and the other isn't doesn't make the impact it has on an individual any less. Someone being bullied or assaulted for being ginger won't think "Well at least people in China don't have to deal with this".
 
BaZ87 said:
No as I expected him to. Given that nearly all of the squad signed a statement in support of Terry, I'd have expected Mikel, Malouda and Drogba too as well.

There may have been other first team players that didn't sign the statement, I'm not sure. Those were the only 3 I noticed missing though.
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Interesting comment, especially as you just claimed the majority of Chelsea's squad gave a statement saying 'they've never heard Terry make racist remarks etc.'
BaZ87 said:
The majority of Chelsea's squad, a lot who weren't on the pitch either, gave a statement saying they've never heard Terry make racist remarks etc. I can't think of another senior player other than those 3 that didn't give a statement. Mikel gave a statement to the police (which slightly contradicted what Terry said) on what he heard during the incident but didn't give the "character reference" type statement that the majority of the squad did.
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Merlin5 said:
No he didn't but most people with half a brain can see that either word, black or N conveys the same derogatory implication.
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
The latter is far more sinister because racism is a worldwide thing with an extremely long history.
Also, calling someone a fat &^*£ doesn't carry the same seriousness either since any fat person has the option to lose weight.
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If calling somebody black is "sinister" it's only because people like you cry that it is. The "N word" is obviously an issue because of the history associated with it. But if you can't call somebody black when they're black then we've gone wrong somewhere. It is (or, in a sensible world, should be...) exactly the same as calling somebody a short **** or ginger **** - it's an insult, but not a racist one. You can't say "oh, but obviously they meant it as a racial insult"....well not unless the Thought Police have arrived and I failed to notice.

And as for it being OK to call somebody a fat **** because they can lose weight.....what about short people? Tall people?

It's a loosely descriptive insult. That's it. It's being blown out of all proportion by the PC brigade, as usual.
 
JohnnyG said:
Interesting comment, especially as you just claimed the majority of Chelsea's squad gave a statement saying 'they've never heard Terry make racist remarks etc.'
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What? :confused:

Are you implying that I've contradicted myself? If so, where?

Cole provided witness testimony in court, the majority of the rest of the squad gave written statements in support of Terry. The only three senior players that I noticed missing were Mikel, Drogba and Malouda.

It would be interesting to know why they didn't provide a statement when the others did. What's difficult to understand?
 
JohnnyG said:
You have serious problems if you think that calling someone a N **** is less offensive than calling someone a Ginger ****.
Or Fat **** for that matter.
When you finally acquire half a brain you might realise that insults are just as hurtful for all who suffer them.
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I believe you have that wrong. I said N is more offensive not less. Reading properly can be useful at times.

All insults are hurtful of course, but calling someone a ginger**** is merely insulting their hair colour. Calling someone a black **** has far more connotations than just skin colour. Are you really that dumb that you can't read between the lines? I guess you are.
 
BaZ87 said:
What? :confused:

Are you implying that I've contradicted myself? If so, where?

Cole provided witness testimony in court, the majority of the rest of the squad gave written statements in support of Terry. The only three senior players that I noticed missing were Mikel, Drogba and Malouda.

It would be interesting to know why they didn't provide a statement when the others did. What's difficult to understand?
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To be honest, what's the point of it all?

"Jhon Terry is a good guy whu is always der for us and he neva called me black or nefin like dat" *This is my interpretation of all footballers in general before anyone hurls "Racist!!11" at me :p*

They either didn't hear it as they were too far away and therefore wrote a statement of support (Which will amount to nothing is court I'd say and so they never wrote one because they knew this) or they were close enough to hear it and therefore should be in the stand testifying.
 
Merlin5 said:
No he didn't but most people with half a brain can see that either word, black or N conveys the same derogatory implication.
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Nope. Not even close.


Merlin5 said:
Also, how people can compare calling someone a ginger @*&^ to calling someone a black *^&@ is beyond me.
.
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Cos it's the same thing. A descriptive term. The ginger bit is descriptive. The black bit is descriptive. It's the bit after that's the insult.
 
BaZ87 said:
What? :confused:

Are you implying that I've contradicted myself? If so, where?

Cole provided witness testimony in court, the majority of the rest of the squad gave written statements in support of Terry. The only three senior players that I noticed missing were Mikel, Drogba and Malouda.

It would be interesting to know why they didn't provide a statement when the others did. What's difficult to understand?
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No.
Here's the thing, you're claiming that the majority of the squad gave statements saying they've never heard him make racist comments (I'm not sure where you're getting this from by the way) & you're surprised that 3 black players didn't & not surprised that 1 black player did.
Are you aware of all the players who did or didn't give any form of statement & their ethnicity or just the 3 you mentioned?
 
Merlin5 said:
I believe you have that wrong. I said N is more offensive not less. Reading properly can be useful at times.

All insults are hurtful of course, but calling someone a ginger**** is merely insulting their hair colour. Calling someone a black **** has far more connotations than just skin colour. Are you really that dumb that you can't read between the lines? I guess you are.
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Yeah I must be that dumb I guess.
Merely insulting their hair colour? Disgusting.
 
JohnnyG said:
No.
Here's the thing, you're claiming that the majority of the squad gave statements saying they've never heard him make racist comments (I'm not sure where you're getting this from by the way) & you're surprised that 3 black players didn't & not surprised that 1 black player did.
Are you aware of all the players who did or didn't give any form of statement & their ethnicity or just the 3 you mentioned?
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I was following updates on twitter from journalists at the trial. Individual statements were given in support of Terry by an Asian guy that provides drivers for Terry, Mourinho and Ryan Bertrand. There was also generic statements given by Kalou, Bosingwa, Cech, Meireles, Lampard, Mata, Turnbull, Romeu, Hilario, Sturridge, Ferreira, Lukaku, Torres, Essien, Ivanovic, Ramires and Luiz. Quickly going over that, the only 3 senior players that I noticed missing where the 3 I mentioned.

Given that it appears as if the entire squad had been asked to provide statements, it would be interesting to know why any player didn't provide one not specifically black players. I'd imagine that it would be extra beneficial to Terry to have had statements from black teammates though, which makes it more of a surprise that they didn't provide a statement.
 
Gilly said:
Nope. Not even close.



Cos it's the same thing. A descriptive term. The ginger bit is descriptive. The black bit is descriptive. It's the bit after that's the insult.
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Rubbish, you're taking it on face value instead of seeing the bigger picture. People don't call someone ginger just to describe him better, lol. The ginger comes into it because many people think ginger is unattractive so it's an insult plus the special added insult bonus of **** afterwards.

'Black' comes into it as an insult because of a whole other can 'o worms. Why would he need to be descriptive about the colour of the person he's insulting? Did he think Ferdinand perhaps had a memory lapse and forgotten he was black so thoughtfully reminded him?
 
JohnnyG said:
You have serious problems if you think that calling someone a N **** is less offensive than calling someone a Ginger ****.
Or Fat **** for that matter.
When you finally acquire half a brain you might realise that insults are just as hurtful for all who suffer them.
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agreed

all are socially unacceptable and will see you in trouble at work if you start yelling them at people.

Only one of them is apparently illegal however ...
 
MrLOL said:
agreed

all are socially unacceptable and will see you in trouble at work if you start yelling them at people.

Only one of them is apparently illegal however ...
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I'm pretty they all fall under the Public Order Act. It'll just be easier to generate a case about racism than other forms of discrimination though probably.
 
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