Jordan Peterson thread

Steampunk said:
Oh yes, but it seems that the left particularly don't care what he does or doesn't say. He's been labelled as right, and is therefore the enemy of SJWs and a valid target for attack. It's just what cancel culture is now, and you don't need to do anything wrong, just get labelled as a target. Even people refusing to be drawn into identity politics on either side are being attacked because "silence is violence" ie, "if you're not with us, you're against us". It's the extremist thinking of the childish and emotional mind. There can be no compromise or middle ground for those sorts of people.
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Its the same on both sides.

Roar87 said:
Maybe you could delve into some of the specifics as to why you think he's on the "edges of the alt right"?
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No.
 
Roar87 said:
Maybe you could delve into some of the specifics as to why you think he's on the "edges of the alt right"?
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We've been here before with Tony re: Lawrence Fox. He believes everything he wants to hear about a person and nothing that person says personally.

Tony Edwards said:
Roar87 said:
Maybe you could delve into some of the specifics as to why you think he's on the "edges of the alt right"?
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No.
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It's soo predictable it's sad.
 
Do your own research. I know you guys dont like the tag alt right but it is what it is.

The term "alt-right" is sometimes ill-defined.[22][23] This has been complicated by the various contradictory ways in which self-described "alt-rightists" have defined the movement and by the tendency among some of its political opponents to apply the term "alt-right" liberally to a broad range of right-wing groups and viewpoints.[24] The conservative writer Ben Shapiro has stated that the American Left has attempted "to lump in the Right with the alt-right by accepting a broader, false definition of the alt-right that could include traditional conservatism".[25]

The 'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism ... criticizes 'multiculturalism' and more rights for non-whites, women, Jews, Muslims, gays, immigrants and other minorities. Its members reject the American democratic ideal that all should have equality under the law regardless of creed, gender, ethnic origin or race.
—The Associated Press[18][26]

The anti-fascist researcher Matthew N. Lyons defined the alt-right as "a loosely organized far-right movement that shares a contempt for both liberal multiculturalism and mainstream conservatism; a belief that some people are inherently superior to others; a strong Internet presence and embrace of specific elements of online culture; and a self-presentation as being new, hip, and irreverent."[27] The academic Tom Pollard referred to the alt-right as a "socio/political movement" comprising "a loose amalgam of rightist groups and causes" who "shun egalitarianism, socialism, feminism, miscegenation, multiculturalism, free trade, globalization, and all forms of gun control".[28] The journalist Mike Wendling termed it "an incredibly loose set of ideologies held together by what they oppose: feminism, Islam, the Black Lives Matter movement, political correctness, a fuzzy idea they call 'globalism,' and establishment politics of both the left and the right."[22]

The Southern Poverty Law Center defined the alt-right as "a set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals whose core belief is that 'white identity' is under attack by multicultural forces using 'political correctness' and 'social justice' to undermine white people and 'their' civilization."[29] The Anti-Defamation League states that "alt-right" is a "vague term actually encompass[ing] a range of people on the extreme right who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of forms of conservatism that embrace implicit or explicit racism or white supremacy".[30]

The historian Timothy D. Snyder commented that "'alt-right' is a term ... meant to provide a fresh label that would sound more attractive than 'Nazi,' 'neo-Nazi,' 'white supremacist,' or 'white nationalist.'".[31] In 2016, the Associated Press (AP) described the "alt-right" label as "currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists" that "may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters' actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience". The AP said that it has previously called such beliefs "racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist".[18] Because the term was coined and used by white nationalists themselves rather than being applied to them by academic observers or by their opponents, the journalist Shaya Tayefe Mohajer urged their colleagues not to use the term "alt-right".[32] George Hawley, a political scientist specialising in the U.S. far-right, disagreed with this approach, noting that using terms like "white supremacist" in place of "alt-right" conceals "the ways the Alt-Right differs from other manifestations of the racial right."[33] In 2017, the AP advised journalists to avoid using the term "alt-right", and that any usage should be surrounded with quotations or described as the "so-called alt-right".[34]

According to a 2016 description in the Columbia Journalism Review, the alt-right is not formally organized and may not be an actual movement:[35] "Because of the nebulous nature of anonymous online communities, nobody's entirely sure who the alt-righters are and what motivates them. It's also unclear which among them are true believers and which are smart-ass troublemakers trying to ruffle feathers".[36] Many of its own proponents often claim they are joking or seeking to provoke an outraged response.[11] Andrew Marantz of The New Yorker describes it as "a label, like 'snob' or 'hipster,' that is often disavowed by people who exemplify it".[37]
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I mean Christ. That right there is the GD index. Alt right is not just racists. Its also people that dont have a ******* clue.
james.miller said:
We've been here before with Tony re: Lawrence Fox. He believes everything he wants to hear about a person and nothing that person says personally.

It's soo predictable it's sad.
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Seriously how can you not read you post and think, Oh **** Im talking about myself as well arent I.
 
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Roar87 said:
I'm looking for your opinion, it's a discussion forum. You've stated an opinion so I'm asking you to back that up with something.
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Ive stated my opinion? Is this some sort of Jordan Peterson attack attempt?

Ive given you a fairly concise right up on alt right. read it and see how many of those views you have.
 
Tony Edwards said:
The 'alt-right' or 'alternative right' is a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States in addition to, or over, other traditional conservative positions such as limited government, low taxes and strict law-and-order. The movement has been described as a mix of racism, white nationalism and populism ... criticizes 'multiculturalism' and more rights for non-whites, women, Jews, Muslims, gays, immigrants and other minorities. Its members reject the American democratic ideal that all should have equality under the law regardless of creed, gender, ethnic origin or race.
—The Associated Press[18][26]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right#cite_note-27
Please point me to something which shows JP embraces white nationalists and white supremacy?

Tony Edwards said:
The anti-fascist researcher Matthew N. Lyons defined the alt-right as "a loosely organized far-right movement that shares a contempt for both liberal multiculturalism and mainstream conservatism; a belief that some people are inherently superior to others; a strong Internet presence and embrace of specific elements of online culture; and a self-presentation as being new, hip, and irreverent."[27] The academic Tom Pollard referred to the alt-right as a "socio/political movement" comprising "a loose amalgam of rightist groups and causes" who "shun egalitarianism, socialism, feminism, miscegenation, multiculturalism, free trade, globalization, and all forms of gun control".[28] The journalist Mike Wendling termed it "an incredibly loose set of ideologies held together by what they oppose: feminism, Islam, the Black Lives Matter movement, political correctness, a fuzzy idea they call 'globalism,' and establishment politics of both the left and the right."[22]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWendling20183-23
Please point me to something which shows JP says he believes that some people are inherently superior?

Tony Edwards said:
The Southern Poverty Law Center defined the alt-right as "a set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals whose core belief is that 'white identity' is under attack by multicultural forces using 'political correctness' and 'social justice' to undermine white people and 'their' civilization."[29] The Anti-Defamation League states that "alt-right" is a "vague term actually encompass[ing] a range of people on the extreme right who reject mainstream conservatism in favor of forms of conservatism that embrace implicit or explicit racism or white supremacy".[30]
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Please point me to something which shows JP says he believes that white identity is under attack?

Tony Edwards said:
The historian Timothy D. Snyder commented that "'alt-right' is a term ... meant to provide a fresh label that would sound more attractive than 'Nazi,' 'neo-Nazi,' 'white supremacist,' or 'white nationalist.'".[31] In 2016, the Associated Press (AP) described the "alt-right" label as "currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists" that "may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters' actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience". The AP said that it has previously called such beliefs "racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist".[18] Because the term was coined and used by white nationalists themselves rather than being applied to them by academic observers or by their opponents, the journalist Shaya Tayefe Mohajer urged their colleagues not to use the term "alt-right".[32] George Hawley, a political scientist specialising in the U.S. far-right, disagreed with this approach, noting that using terms like "white supremacist" in place of "alt-right" conceals "the ways the Alt-Right differs from other manifestations of the racial right."[33] In 2017, the AP advised journalists to avoid using the term "alt-right", and that any usage should be surrounded with quotations or described as the "so-called alt-right".[34]
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Same point about white nationalism. Please point me to a souce showing JP believes in white nationalism.

Tony Edwards said:
According to a 2016 description in the Columbia Journalism Review, the alt-right is not formally organized and may not be an actual movement:[35] "Because of the nebulous nature of anonymous online communities, nobody's entirely sure who the alt-righters are and what motivates them. It's also unclear which among them are true believers and which are smart-ass troublemakers trying to ruffle feathers".[36] Many of its own proponents often claim they are joking or seeking to provoke an outraged response.[11] Andrew Marantz of The New Yorker describes it as "a label, like 'snob' or 'hipster,' that is often disavowed by people who exemplify it".[37]
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Please point me to something which shows JP wants to provoke an outraged response. In fact I'll point you to an interview where he explicitly says he doesn't want to provoke anyone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54
@25:35
 
StriderX said:
Espousing religious views is a matter of the right, he may be liberal about it, but it's definitely not a left-wing cause.
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This whole left/right discussion tends to be fruitless because what axes are we actually measuring?

Socialism vs Capitalism
Progressivism vs Conservativism
Liberalism vs Authoritarianism
Collectivism vs Individualism

Steampunk said:
Oh yes, but it seems that the left particularly don't care what he does or doesn't say. He's been labelled as right, and is therefore the enemy of SJWs and a valid target for attack. It's just what cancel culture is now, and you don't need to do anything wrong, just get labelled as a target. Even people refusing to be drawn into identity politics on either side are being attacked because "silence is violence" ie, "if you're not with us, you're against us". It's the extremist thinking of the childish and emotional mind. It's what the demagogues use to control the emotional masses who can't control themselves. There can be no compromise or middle ground for those sorts of people.
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Exactly, we see these exact same divisive tactics from BLM, "white silence is violence", the with us or against us mentality.
 
Hades said:
No, you stepped into a debate, got challenged and are now avoiding replying.
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Nonsense. What is happening is you are all asking the same question over and over again. Ive answered the question and Im not running it down to micro points for you.

Why the hell are you guys constantly putting up and defending right wingers and then claiming you and they are not right wingers.

Your fake outrage is telling.

Are you all going to now say that Fox isnt after the disenfranchised right wing vote?
 
Tony Edwards said:
Nonsense. What is happening is you are all asking the same question over and over again. Ive answered the question and Im not running it down to micro points for you.

Why the hell are you guys constantly putting up and defending right wingers and then claiming you and they are not right wingers.

Your fake outrage is telling.

Are you all going to now say that Fox isnt after the disenfranchised right wing vote?
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Avoiding again. "I've replied before". You made the statement to me a few posts back saying JP was alt right. Only a few posts back. But you are not prepared to (or probably able to) show me why you think that. You even stated what you consider to be alt right so it should be a simple matter to point to reliable evidence that JP meets your measure.

Quite standard fare really.
 
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